Consortium for panels ...?

[Worcester]

We are about to buy a few extra containers of panels - most likely Canadian Solar 250W poly's that way we can stabilise our panel prices and also secure a few extra contracts after the prices go up.

We know that some manufacturers are already planning to ship from non-china manufactured module, though we're still not sure if they'll be impacted if they use chinese cells, we expect thos module to come to the market at between 50p and 55p / watt.

If there is enough interest to get together another container load (~ 140kWp) (that's only 35 x 4Kw Jobs) then it may be worthwhile joining together to put the capital together. - Anyone interested or are you going to still buy on the 'spot' market place?

May be better to pm me with your needs ..

 

[pvman]

What is the lead time?

Tom

 

[Worcester]

Sorting finances this week (for our stock), could be in stock in our warehouse by end of next week. I'd need to make up an extra full container (560 panels / 140kWp) to make it worthwhile.

 

[Gavin A]

What price per Wp / per panel are you looking at?

tbh I think I'd be too concerned about the potential import duties to actually import myself at the moment. unless you have a cast iron guarantee that the manufacturer / supplier was going to cover that, and even then I'd be a bit dubious as ultimately is it not the importers responsibility to pay the tax, so we could end up being chased for it, then having to chase the manufacturer to repay that to us, which isn't a situation I'd want to be in.

We probably also don't have the cash available to tie up until we get some of these commercial contracts sewn up.

 

[Worcester]

The price - competitive certainly better than Segen! (we'd go broke buying anything from them even at our discount levels)

Panel prices WILL go up - we have already got quotes for CS panels from Canada - 20% above current prices.

The key thing here is to secure panel prices for ourselves for the next few months. Additionally if we buy enough to say last the next 6 months - we will be unbeatable on price, and will win additonal work against other installers.

The alternative is the possibility of this being the final nail in the coffin of small to medium scale PV.

So lets say the Chinese reduce their base price even further, so that 47% (average) then puts them at a slightly lower price than the 20% hiked panels made outside China, how much impact will that have on your business? - Will you even have a Solar PV installtion business? - We will - and we will grow.

Re duties, these are already customs cleared, - we regularly buy panels both cleared and by clearing them ourselves, we've been binging products in through various chaneels from China for over 5 years now, so we know the processes that have to be gone through. These panels will be duty paid, customs cleared, so NO potential liability.

I am suprised at the low level of interest in this - though not worried, as that's actually to my advantage

 

[Gavin A]

I reckon lots of us are skint.

If these are actually being bought and imported direct from China as opposed to being bought from a chinese manufacturer's own EU warehouse, then I don't see how they can have the duty paid on them as the duty rate hasn't been set yet, and as I understand it, will be the importers responsibility to pay at the point that the rate actually is set. Or do they customs clear them actually in China, so they're effectively already classed as being under way to the UK or something?

Sorry for questioning you on this, but you can see why I'd be nervous about a potential 50% liability down the road.

If you can give me an idea on likely pricing at this end though, then if it is significantly cheaper than current supplier rates (£125 for 250Wp poly) then I may well be able to raise the capital to buy half a container or so.

It'd definitely be good to have some pricing certainty for the next few months.

 

[Gavin A]

ps If we do go down this route, we might be able to store some a few additional pallets for a short time for anyone who hasn't got storage space.

 

[Worcester]

They are customs cleared in the EU already. The manufacturer is taking the 'potential' hit the prices and contract I have are DDP (Delivered Duty Paid) - the way the EU works is that if they apply a temporary import duty on the 8th June, they can't then apply that retrospectively to panels that cleared customs between 8th March and 8th June. If they want to apply the restrospective duty they have to wait for the full 9 months consultation - 8th December (which they won't )

We are happy to look after storage space - I have a friendly transport company (part of Palletforce) that store, pick and ship to site for me

 

[Gavin A]

ah right, that makes more sense. Also explains the short time frame between order and delivery.<br><br>That's a good arrangement to have - the friendly delivery company.<br><br>any ideas on pricing?<br>

 

[finchy]

Great idea , but do not have the confidence in the market at the mo. Our sales have completely dried up, before May we was firing all cylinders. The other areas of the business are doing well, and can not justify tying up working capital with out guaranteed sales. spot prices it is for us, the pv light still burns ......!

 

[SRE]

We're the same as Finchy, it's too much of a risk and we have very limited storage. I completely understand the theory but it would be a real gamble for us and I can't afford to take it. Thanks for the opportunity though, it's not something we could do ourselves so having it as an option is appreciated

 

[whinmoor]

Same as SRE. Part of the problem is getting the wrong stuff. We go and import a whole load of silver-framed panels and the next few customers all want black...

It might not be a problem on commercial but most of our work is domestic.

 

[SolarCity]

Agree with others. I wish we had the capital to invest in something like this but we are struggling along at the moment.

Great idea though and I hope I could get involved with similar schemes in the future.

 

[Gavin A]

Have to say that I agree with Gordon here that the time really is now for investing in a decent stock of panels to give a competitive edge and confidence in pricing for jobs - we've already lost a 70kWp install as I couldn't nail down the price of the panels, and lost it to someone who was able to price the job up confidently, and that can only get worse as this madness carries on through the summer.

At a guess, we could well be talking the difference of £20 a panel for poly panels from now to a few weeks time if the EU does put 40-60% tariffs on the chinese panels, and that won't just be the chinese prices going up.

No idea if we can raise the capital mind, but I think I might well give it a shot.

Gordon, please check your emails

 

[dansk]

~Well i lost an extra 5kwp addition because NPG wanted 21k to fetch a wire across the road and convert to 3 phase also took 60 days to tell me.