Construction Industry Scheme

[Energetic]

Hi all,

Does PV qualify under the Construction Industry Scheme? We use self employed labour one or two days a week to help with installs and having to do their tax for them sounds way over the top to me! Atm they invoice us as any other supplier does...

 

[BruceB]

Yes it does, both new build and retrofit. HMRC consider it an 'additional' installation rather than an alteration to an existing one. There is a thread on it somewhere. So if you employ sub-contractors, eg scaffolders, you need to register.

Edited to add look at post 19 here:
http://www.electriciansforums.net/p...onstruction-industry-scheme-2.html#post281665
It shows the question I asked and answer I got from HMRC. I am not convinced 100% their interpretation of the law is completely correct, but it was not a battle I was going to fight.

Regards
Bruce

 

[Energetic]

Thanks Bruce,

Another layer of admin and us doing their job for them i guess... Stuggling to express myself without incurring the wrath of the swear filter... I guess i shall have to register...

What would the penalty be for a small firm pleading ignorance do you think? ;-)

 

[BruceB]

Potentially large penalty. They consider anything to do with the building trade as dodgy. Penalties are very automatic nowadays, even if returns are late when you do not owe any money.

 

[Worcester]

None!

We use a number of subcontractors in various roles, including scaffolders, however they are all limited companies, not individuals and that makes a difference,

"CIS only covers self-employed workers - it doesn't cover employees"

so after discussions with HMRC we have been OK. There are ways, however we take great diligence in keeping to the rules.

 

[Energetic]

Cheers Gents, very helpful indeed...

 

[BruceB]

@Worcester,
I am not sure what you are saying. As an example, for our scaffolding limited company subcontractor, my company is registered under the CIS scheme, so we had to 'verify' the scaffolding subcontractor before we started making payments to them. That verification number then tells us that HMRC know enough about the scaffolding company that we can pay them gross without deduction of tax. We then have to make a monthly CIS return which says we have made payments to that company and deducted no tax. For us it is nugatory paperwork that adds nothing to the sum of mankind's knowledge, but leaves us vulnerable to a penalty if we get it wrong or forget to do it.

Have you managed to avoid it?

Regards
Bruce

 

[MorganPVI]

It's a damn grey area on Scaffolding Ltd.

We pay our scaffers without reference to CIS, as under our interpretation they are not self employed and it might be a different crew everytime.
Saldy we do have to run CIS for some of our staff and it's a nightmare.

 

[Energetic]

I am defeated, crushed, they always win...

Can anyone recommend a good Payroll and CIS software package? Our accounts in sage instant will most likely be kept seperate and done by someone else so it can be any software...

Thanks...

 

[docka]

Reading this thread (and linked one) with concern as my book-keeper advised me i did not need to join as i am in the same position as BruceB above.
I have no employees and only sub-contract to the scaffolders who are a LTD company. Anyone else a sole trader in this position and what have you done about it???

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Reading this thread (and linked one) with concern as my book-keeper advised me i did not need to join as i am in the same position as BruceB above.
I have no employees and only sub-contract to the scaffolders who are a LTD company. Anyone else a sole trader in this position and what have you done about it???

Are you emplying the scaffolders, or are they just delivering and erecting the scaffold for you that you are then hiring?

 

[docka]

Are you emplying the scaffolders, or are they just delivering and erecting the scaffold for you that you are then hiring?

Not employing no, just as you say, hiring them.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you're just hiring the scaffold, and the scaffolders are just delivering, erecting then leaving site, returning at the end of the hire to remove the scafold, then I wouldn't treat them any differently to any other company you would hire from.
If they're staying for any amount of time, so as to make alterations as and when, then I would consider that they were being employed.