Control panels

[Knobhead]

Paul for gods sake never go in to steel making. High temperature shut down? I’d have been hung from the nearest beam for even suggesting it. A warning maybe, that can be ignored, but a shut down, no chance!

A one inch air line blowing in to the panel usually cured the problem. If thing went badly wrong it was a case of do anything you could to get it going again.

One catastrophic failure cost £5M to get us back on line.

 

[netblindpaul]

Tony,
These panels went into manufacturing plants into continuous process lines.
The client agreement was received, in fact it was endorsed, and it became their de-facto standard.
The panels, did have door mounted air con units mind, with filtration obviously.
I have worked in steel, don't like it but have done it and may be doing some more shortly.
The systems were designed to shut down in a controlled manner, and thus would bring the whole line to a controlled stop automatically.
It was not my design or concept, it was done elsewhere in the company, however, it was the company standard, and they are still going today and still manufacturing in the UK.
I understand your concern Tony, but, it depends on the value of the kit that you are protecting vs the cost of a line stop.
There were buffer areas in the line so one section shutting down would not stop the whole line instantly.

When you look at an unplanned catastrophic failure against a controlled shut down with prior warnings, remembering that there would be a time window between the warning and the over temp shut down so that action could be taken then the latter could easily be preferable depending on the industry and line design.

 

[Capita]

The controls panels on the machinery I work with dont have any temp monitoring equipment in or high temp shutdown.

The VFD's are mounted low (lenze, or telemeq units), with the plc (S5 or S7 generally) mounted high. No fan or forced cooling although there are a couple of 20mm vents on either side of the panel - some do have a panel heater in though.

 

[vaughant]

Paul,I'm wondering whether you were involved with building the panels for the frontors we used in Swansea plant (mainly disc cutting).

They all had panel temp monitors thermostatically controlled.in the summer with no aircon in the building the 840c HMI continually had the fault "panel temp alarm" up on the screen.
After creeping the thermostat up all shift on hot days finally the aircon man got called in and it was sorted,well,for a little while.
Eventually the fault got downgraded in the HMI to a "message" rather than an "alarm".
40 frontor univerter machines all with flashing red lights but still going throughout the hot months after that!!!

In ford Swansea plant maintenance was a very dirty word!!!

 

[Engineer54]

In ford Swansea plant maintenance was a very dirty word!!!

Things have changed a great deal then, As my experience is quite different to say the least!! Big annual budgets and new plant was the norm. As you would expect, ... when down times costs thousands per minute. Which will probably be even more these days!!!

 

[vaughant]

Things have changed a great deal then, As my experience is quite different to say the least!! Big annual budgets and new plant was the norm. As you would expect, ... when down times costs thousands per minute. Which will probably be even more these days!!!

I'm pretty certain we were relatively unique in that respect,especially visiting all the other ford plants and seeing how they do it.
The importance of non production loss was also big in their minds,but it was more a sticky plaster fix than anything else.
Generally budgets appeared limitless,I never remember having to struggle for spares that must have been worth millions,but their motto was "if it ain't broke don't fix it",not always a bad thing I suppose!!!!

 

[Engineer54]

The ONLY time sticky plaster fixes were condoned, was to get production back up and running. Directly that production shift had ended, maintenance teams would be correcting/replacing whatever the problem was that caused the down time on production.

Rarely was a sticky plaster fix still in place, by the time the following production shift began... Any major works that arose from down times would have been completly remedied over the weekend down time on over time...

 

[netblindpaul]

E54,
Trust Vaughant & myself when we tell you Swansea was a different ball game.
It was run to failure sticking plaster, then run to failure.
They ran 3x5 shifts with O/T to make quota.
Rarely was there any such repairs as you describe, even when I was there as a vendor engineer telling them that these things had to be done.
It was always the quick fix, edit the plc to put a force in etc. never find the faulty switch or cable etc. and change it unless you had to.
Maybe this was one of the reasons the plant was devolved off to Visteon, and is now no more!


BTW,
I have also worked in BEP, DEP, Halewood, Jaguar Browns Lane, Land Rover E&N, Longbridge, Cofton Hackett, and several others, and I must say Swansea had pretty much the worst maintenance attitude when it came to root cause fixes.

 

[Engineer54]

Quite amazing how different plant locations can have such different philosophies on maintenance attitudes!! I can honestly say, hand on heart so to speak, say i just don't recognise the philosophy you have described at Swansea in my own personal experience of the company...

They were plowing millions in to new plant and automation of the paint shop right up until the final year of production at Dagenham. I know that, because i was involved in the installation planning of one such system in the final years. Thee project was called ''LEADLAP'' computerised vehicle scheduling system, it was around 96/97 as i remember. Long story that one...lol!!! Still have a letter of personal reference they forwarded to me with my completion bonus payment check ...lol!!

Now while i was back there, things had changed, re-organisation of the maintenance departments into a central location etc. But maintenance still very much at the forefront, as the system that was being installed, was designed around aspects of ease of maintenance and production fault location requirements...

That was a 4 month project, ending in the 3 week annual shutdown where everything came together and being fully operational on day one of the first day shift following the shutdown. Most of the containment, cabling, and panels etc, were being installed during the the weeks and months prior to the shutdown. Installation work being mainly carried out by contractors with the maintenance being given training on site and at suppliers establishment.

I'm ranting on now...lol! But the difference between my experiences and yours is like the proverbial ''Chalk & Cheese'' :cheesy: ...haha!!!

 

[netblindpaul]

They did away with maint at Swansea quite a few years before they closed, around 1988/89 IIRC!
From then on all guys were in line teams, fitters, sparks, operators all doing maintenance and operating, cleaning etc.

 

[Engineer54]

No wonder the place went to the dogs then.... That system has never worked, and frankly there would be no way i'd even contemplate being an operator, let alone cleaning.

They did manage to call trades maintenance operatives, willing to work in any aspect of maintenance, with a decent raise in hourly rate, but in reality everything continued in the same old manner. They all helped each other anyway ...lol!!

 

[Knobhead]

They did away with maint at Swansea quite a few years before they closed, around 1988/89 IIRC!From then on all guys were in line teams, fitters, sparks, operators all doing maintenance and operating, cleaning etc.

I was given that option around the same time, I took redundancy!