Conumdrum - thoughts please

[Octopus]

Hi all,

went to see an opportunity today, lady wanted extra sockets so a quick look at the board revealed this...



Shes got an RCD but no main switch!

So what do I do, she hasn't got much money and from what she said she's not had any issues with her electrics!

1. Simply add the extra socket?
2. Add the socket and add a main switch between the DNO fuse and the existing CU/RCD
3. Recommend a new CU and then add the socket
4. Decline to provide an estimate
5. Any ideas from the members?


Ideally I'd try and persuade her to go for #3 but judging by her approach to questions about costs I'm 99% sure she won't go for this!

I'm sure the local handyman will simply add the sockets and ignore the implications!

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hi all,

went to see an opportunity today, lady wanted extra sockets so a quick look at the board revealed this...

View attachment 5938

Shes got an RCD but no main switch!

So what do I do, she hasn't got much money and from what she said she's not had any issues with her electrics!

1. Simply add the extra socket?
2. Add the socket and add a main switch between the DNO fuse and the existing CU/RCD
3. Recommend a new CU and then add the socket
4. Decline to provide an estimate
5. Any ideas from the members?


Ideally I'd try and persuade her to go for #3 but judging by her approach to questions about costs I'm 99% sure she won't go for this!

I'm sure the local handyman will simply add the sockets and ignore the implications!

The BS 4293 RCD is the main switch and was classified for isolation before being superseded by BS 61008 devices.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks IQ, your input has put my mind to rest. It'll be option 1 then!

 

[IQ Electrical]

Thanks IQ, your input has put my mind to rest. It'll be option 1 then!

Take note though that the RCD main switch is 100mA!

 

[Octopus]

Take note though that the RCD main switch is 100mA!

Noted!

 

[truckster]

Take note though that the RCD main switch is 100mA!

And only 63A as far as I can see

 

[daniel hill]

you carnt go for option one as it is a 100MA rcd and needs to be 30MA rcd

 

[ezzzekiel]

an rcd socket outlet?

 

[Octopus]

Well are you sure?

Its an existing installation (and on an inspection would be a code 4 IMHO) so at least its got a RCD!

 

[One_of_them]

Well are you sure?

Its an existing installation (and on an inspection would be a code 4 IMHO) so at least its got a RCD!

indeed mate an inspection would throw up Code 4 for no RCD but as you are going to be either creating a new circuit or altering an existing circuit which you then become responsible for, you must ensure your work is in line with 17th ED.
And as socket outlets are required to be protected by 30mA RCD you must comply (unless the varying factors mean you dont need one but i dubt that)

thanks

 

[One_of_them]

an rcd socket outlet?

indeed this would cover the RCD for the socket etc but what about the cabling installed ie: buried <50mm

 

[Octopus]

indeed mate an inspection would throw up Code 4 for no RCD but as you are going to be either creating a new circuit or altering an existing circuit which you then become responsible for, you must ensure your work is in line with 17th ED.
And as socket outlets are required to be protected by 30mA RCD you must comply (unless the varying factors mean you dont need one but i dubt that)

thanks

The stupidity of the regs. 100mA RCD on the installation and a 30mA socket protected in the bedroom!

 

[netblindpaul]

Yep absolutely ridiculous, as you can then fall foul of another reg if you cascade instantaneous RCD's even though you are making it safer...

 

[Octopus]

And to think that the pub sparky or DIY handyman will probably just fit the non rcd sockets and not even think about the regs etc.

Sometimes I dispair

 

[pushrod]

30mA RCD FCU(s) leaves a little more flexibility for sockets and protects the cable,or put a separate 30 mA rcd on the start of the ring. No definite discrimination with either of my options so would have to be noted as a departure, but at least with 2nd one you are improving the installation by giving all the particular existing sockets and their cabling rcd protection as well.

 

[Octopus]

Not sure adding any costs will go down and lets not forget that all she wants is a couple of extra sockets. £4.99 down the big shed for an adapter.

What a sucess for the professionalism of our industry.

 

[Big n Daft]

This connundrum is a pearler.
Now how many of us would take a punt on just fitting another socket as a cash job?????
Not as the thought would even enter my head because it doesnt comply so therefore its not safe is it????
Whoops, cats escaped and found the pigeons...............

 

[IQ Electrical]

This connundrum is a pearler.
Now how many of us would take a punt on just fitting another socket as a cash job?????
Not as the thought would even enter my head because it doesnt comply so therefore its not safe is it????
Whoops, cats escaped and found the pigeons...............

Your choice, your insurance (I hope) and your reputation....

 

[truckster]

Leave it until after July 1st as I think the requirement to provide additional rcd protection on a minor works may be dropped.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Leave it until after July 1st as I think the requirement to provide additional rcd protection on a minor works may be dropped.

That particular clause was dropped from the DPC.

 

[Octopus]

Leave it until after July 1st as I think the requirement to provide additional rcd protection on a minor works may be dropped.

Truckster you are spot on, just been reviewing the IEE slides and presentation by Geoff Cronshaw and he has just covered it precisely (minor works)!

http://scpro.streamuk.com/uk/player/Default.aspx?wid=8561&ptid=26&t=0

1st July or is it 1st Jan 2012?

Or has it been removed?

tin hat only

 

[Big n Daft]

Your choice, your insurance (I hope) and your reputation....

Read carefully
"Not as the thought would even enter my head because it doesnt comply so therefore its not safe is it????"
Just fishing, never know what you might catch, hehehe

 

[IQ Electrical]

Truckster you are spot on, just been reviewing the IEE slides and presentation by Geoff Cronshaw and he has just covered it precisely (minor works)!

Stream Connect - Player

1st July or is it 1st Jan 2012?

Or has it been removed?

tin hat only

It's 1st January 2012 but I read the last draft before print approval at the Guidance Note 3 amendment meeting at the IET in April and the 'minor works RCD risk assessment' clause was definitely removed.

 

[pushrod]

Not sure adding any costs will go down and lets not forget that all she wants is a couple of extra sockets. £4.99 down the big shed for an adapter.

.

Well if she doesn't want to pay for a proper job... that is what she should do
If i want something, i save up for it !

 

[rodney12]

I was told it had been taken out of the ammendment as well at an ELECSA roadshow

 

[NMc]

What about doing a departure - 100mA RCD at customers request

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Any departure has to offer the same degree of safety as would be afforded by compliance with the Regulations.
The only option as I see it, would be to follow the requirements for the cable that don't require RCD protection, and use RCD socket-outlets, or perhaps install a stand alone RCD to protect the RFC.

 

[truckster]

It's 1st January 2012 but I read the last draft before print approval at the Guidance Note 3 amendment meeting at the IET in April and the 'minor works RCD risk assessment' clause was definitely removed.

Thanks for the update IQ, I was trying to remember where I read it but it seems thats redundant now.