Could really do with some help!

[stevie_sausage]

On Monday just gone I carried out and Electrical Installation Condition report for the company I work for their were 13 circuits across 2 C.U 5 of which were 20a radials across a rcd controlled c.u for E7, the boards were wylex type and were fitted in Oct 2009 I did the test everything was in acceptable condition apart from a couple of C2/C3 notifications. sadly, the property caught fire that night, thank God the family was safe and got out! the customer was awoke by smoke alarms triggering at about 1 am. the boards have completely disintergrated ( I've not seen them only what I have been told) only remaining is copper no plastic enclosure and none of the plastic on mcb's etc, supplier has already removed the metering equipment . the next day my company sent a company who audit samples of our work that we carry out back to the property to re-do the test to check their results were in line with mine and that the test had been carried out correctly. They where. having spoken to my employers they want me to come back to work but obviously dont want me back on the tools until they have finished their investigation. However they are not going to get a forensic specialist in to determine the cause of the fire, though I want and would welcome them to, but they wont and this is where I am hoping some of you could possibly help me....



I am aware from looking over the last few days (hindsight is a wonderful thing) that around the 2009-10 Electrium gave a recall to faulty (wylex) mcb's that could and have in some cases caught fire, I have seen a few posts on-line where unfortunately they have, if anyone has come across them causing fires could you please post what happened and how fast the fire burnt through the board. the customer went to bed at 11pm monday night and as stated was awoke at 1am so this gives a two hour window for this to mainifest itself into a full blown fire, if it was surely you would have seen some smoke or s/alarm would have triggered in the hallway were the fuseboard is situated if it was 'slow burning' also customer would have surely got the legendary fishy smell throughout the day which would really have caused alarm with me only finishing the test at 1:50pm on the monday. I cannot rule out a mistake on my part unless forensics are brought in however having been in this industry for near 20 years I have never known 2x fuseboards go completely on fire & disintergrate within 2 hours after smouldering for 9 due to a loose connection ( please enlighten me if you have) again if it was loose connections would the power have not started cutting out depending on what was loose etc (testers said everything that remained was tight btw) I'm really at a loss here and could really do with some help as a bad name in this industry sure travels quick. thank you all.

 

[Des 56]

but this whole thing smells very fishy (no pun intended) to me.

I think trev summed up the doubts and the way forward well

Another thing for all of us to bare in mind, the Eicr now puts situations such as this firmly in the electricians hands and

The Eicr now asks for the condition of the suppliers cable ,metering equipment etc
Surely this is a pass the buck tick box designed in part to absolve the supplier of what should be their responsibility,that buck being passed to the little man once again

 

[trev]

There's the big question though Des isn't it? The suppliers gear is their toys and we are not supposed to play with them. How can we then make a legitimate comment about their condition? If we can't play with them how are we supposed to know if they're in good condition or not?.....Obviously we do to a large point but I'm sure you'll see what I'm getting at

 

[Des 56]

There's the big question though Des isn't it? The suppliers gear is their toys and we are not supposed to play with them. How can we then make a legitimate comment about their condition? If we can't play with them how are we supposed to know if they're in good condition or not?.....Obviously we do to a large point but I'm sure you'll see what I'm getting at

I agree,we are not in any way in a position to tick those boxes with anything other than a simple visual observation,yet our lords and masters put it there and in a very specific way

How can we then make a legitimate comment about their condition?

I see little reason for its inclusion other than where an addition is being made and doubt exists
They love to state its their equipment and we should not mess with it
Its their gear,their responsibility,but these tick boxes could work against the spark in these situations

 

[trev]

I agree,we are not in any way in a position to tick those boxes with anything other than a simple visual observation,yet our lords and masters put it there and in a very specific way

How can we then make a legitimate comment about their condition?

I see little reason for its inclusion other than where an addition is being made and doubt exists
They love to state its their equipment and we should not mess with it
Its their gear,their responsibility,but these tick boxes could work against the spark in these situations

My point exactly, their gear, their rules, they should be checking it not us.

 

[ipf]

My point exactly, their gear, their rules, they should be checking it not us.

Aye, but the only time they'll check it is after an emergency call....usually by us.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Boycott those tick boxes?

 

[kingeri]

Going back to the Wylex MCB recall, I have seen two instances of these faulty breakers in action. Both were VERY slow burners, there was clear evidence of melting over a long period of time. I think you would have seen evidence of a fault during the EICR if these were to blame, I can't see them just going up in such a short space of time.

 

[odawire]

On Monday just gone I carried out and Electrical Installation Condition report for the company I work for their were 13 circuits across 2 C.U 5 of which were 20a radials across a rcd controlled c.u for E7, the boards were wylex type and were fitted in Oct 2009 I did the test everything was in acceptable condition apart from a couple of C2/C3 notifications. sadly, the property caught fire that night, thank God the family was safe and got out! the customer was awoke by smoke alarms triggering at about 1 am. the boards have completely disintergrated ( I've not seen them only what I have been told) only remaining is copper no plastic enclosure and none of the plastic on mcb's etc, supplier has already removed the metering equipment . the next day my company sent a company who audit samples of our work that we carry out back to the property to re-do the test to check their results were in line with mine and that the test had been carried out correctly. They where. having spoken to my employers they want me to come back to work but obviously dont want me back on the tools until they have finished their investigation. However they are not going to get a forensic specialist in to determine the cause of the fire, though I want and would welcome them to, but they wont and this is where I am hoping some of you could possibly help me....



I am aware from looking over the last few days (hindsight is a wonderful thing) that around the 2009-10 Electrium gave a recall to faulty (wylex) mcb's that could and have in some cases caught fire, I have seen a few posts on-line where unfortunately they have, if anyone has come across them causing fires could you please post what happened and how fast the fire burnt through the board. the customer went to bed at 11pm monday night and as stated was awoke at 1am so this gives a two hour window for this to mainifest itself into a full blown fire, if it was surely you would have seen some smoke or s/alarm would have triggered in the hallway were the fuseboard is situated if it was 'slow burning' also customer would have surely got the legendary fishy smell throughout the day which would really have caused alarm with me only finishing the test at 1:50pm on the monday. I cannot rule out a mistake on my part unless forensics are brought in however having been in this industry for near 20 years I have never known 2x fuseboards go completely on fire & disintergrate within 2 hours after smouldering for 9 due to a loose connection ( please enlighten me if you have) again if it was loose connections would the power have not started cutting out depending on what was loose etc (testers said everything that remained was tight btw) I'm really at a loss here and could really do with some help as a bad name in this industry sure travels quick. thank you all.

Hey sounds like a bit of a nightmare mate, you say there were some C2 recommendations? therefore it was in unsatisfactory condition, so I don't think you should worry, if it gets legal; you told them on the day of the fire that they're installation was unsafe, must just be a case of really bad timing. or if something fishy is going on they've played it totally wrong.

 

[ElectriCall]

thats the thing mate, I dont mind getting pinned for it if its my fault like I said I'd rather know as my confidence for doing this job now has taken a hell of a knock. In terms of the meter being tampered again it is a possibility customer was complaining that she spends 55 pounds per week on Electricity she is on benefits not that that should be an indication of someones honesty in obtaining 'free energy' I have to be careful to not start my own crusade of blaming the customer etc as then I'm no worse than the people who are trying to prove it was me. however it is a bit circumstancial that wylex mcb's could cause fire, the board was fitted oct 09 I test it and that night it decides to go up like a piece of sugar paper.

Is this a council house?

 

[telectrix]

£55/week on lecky????? what's growing in the attic?

 

[Stroppy]

Before I ever put a lid back on a board even if I've only touched 1 circuit I tighten everything just out of habit.

This is a habit I have adopted, too, as so many board I have worked on seem to have had their screws done up by an infant with his thumb and forefinger. I don't think I've ever found a board which I can't get another quarter of a turn out of at least some of the screws - obviously without wrenching them up so hard that my arm aches, which would do more harm than good.

 

[Des 56]

If you were to go all "Action man" on the Wylex breakers at that time, the threads would get stripped quicker than you could aquire those aching arms lol

 

[oldtimer]

Been thinking about this and although I do not do a lot of EICRs I when I do I make it good practice to explain to the customer not to store combustible materials against the CU and service head plus I am sure the ESC did a thing on this with warning labels.Plus I always check the smoke detector before and after just to confirm they are ok because as we know electronic equipment does not like IR tests and the old customer response of well my smoke detector was working ok before you touched it so with me checking it first I can say are you aware your smoke detector is not working. Also does not help with the blame culture we live in nowadays

 

[Stroppy]

If you were to go all "Action man" on the Wylex breakers at that time, the threads would get stripped quicker than you could aquire those aching arms lol

With my weedy inbred arms that's not much of a danger!

 

[brookster]

I feel sorry for you mate I really do, if it was anything to do with you most likely you would have found out as soon as you turned the installation on.
This must weigh heavy on you and I would be pushing for the manufacturer to be done for this as someone could have died and take some of the dread from your shoulders.
Parts failing in this manner is simply unacceptable they should be taken to task over it.