Curious kitchen nquestion

[wams]

I over heard a story at the golf club earlier tonight about this guy who ordered a kitchen to be fitted and the kitchen got fitted yesterday but earlier in the week the kitchen fitter advised that he get a electrician to remove a cooker switch and replace it with a double socket for the new hob and single oven. so the electrician done exactly as the fitter said, plus leaving the old socket that powered the old extractor.

So today as he was admiring his new kitchen he started looking at the instructions of the oven, hob and extractor and noticed the installation instructions that each appliance had to be fitted with a Double Pole Switch Fused Spur Outlet.

He said his double socket was spurred off a single socket that is mounted behind the oven.

I suggested to the guy that the electrician could mount 2 fused spurs from the single socket (radial) to power both the hob and the single oven and also replace the the extractor socket with a fused spur knowing he had safety features of the fuses in the plugs as well as the spurs.

Is the above paragraph not possible? or should the kitchen fitter who works for a 1 man band kitchen supplier who more than likely supplies 1 brand of appliances know exactly what electrical components the appliances should be connected to while he designed the kitchen.

What are your thoughts?

 

[gamblor6]

i would need cable sizes for every point before i could asses this one

 

[KFH]

The guy needs to contact his electrician with the instructions and ask what he needs to do. I would suspect that the kitchen fitter could be liable if there were any sort of fault as he had not instructed the client/electrician to fit the supply to the manufactures instructions. I would expect that a supplier instructing a client on the supply requirements to do it correctly but how many people read the instructions?

 

[malcolmsanford]

The first thing I would want to know is the loading of both the hob and the oven, as to be honest pluging 2 loads like that into a BS 1363 double socket is asking quite a lot of that socket. Though a socket is rated for a 13 amp load, and granted the oven and hobs will not be a continious load very few, and even the famous MK don't like to be loaded over 9-10amps for a period of time. IMO it is not the best way to supply these two items of equipment.

We also have to be sure what the manufacterers state regarding installation. A BS 1363 socket outlet gives you both isolation and switching the same as a double pole FCU. It is good practice to have a double switch above counter either in the form of a switch/ FCU which would then control a single unswitched 13amp BS 1363 socket, under counter to plug the appliance into. Though it is good practice to do this, providing the socket is deemed accessible, then the use of switches are not needed.

 

[wams]

2.5mm2 T&E cable feeding the ring and spurring off to the double socket.

The single oven CDA SC220 is P=2250W Max (feeder cable section 230V - 3x1.5mm2)

Hob is gas, Model HCG501SS - electrical ignition P=0.1W Max

 

[mogga]

even the loading of commercial cafe toasters urn sockets through constant heavy loading IMO hob and oven into a double socket may be askin for trouble unless they are gas and its just ignition

 

[Dunc]

Isn't there a reg or atleast a recommendation that loads in excess of 2kW should be permanently connected to the supply. Also if these loads are to be connected to a ring final then checks should be made to ascertain whether or not the circuit is at risk of being overloaded with the addition. Manufacturers instructions would be the best point of reference for how to feed the new oven.

 

[KFH]

433.1.5 refers to not overloading any part of the ring for long periods. App15 (iii) recomends connecting anything over 2kW to its own radial in order to achieve this.

 

[Colin Integrale]

Yeah, we put our ovens on seperate circuits. Even though they're normally just over 2kW we still run in a 6mm for future expansion etc.

If the hob is gas then the ignitor just spurs off the ring, but if not then I think you can run them both off the same circuit if the load does not exceed something like 10 or 15kW (haven't got the book), and I'm not sure if that's with diversity either.

 

[malcolmsanford]

2.5mm2 T&E cable feeding the ring and spurring off to the double socket.

The single oven CDA SC220 is P=2250W Max (feeder cable section 230V - 3x1.5mm2)

Hob is gas, Model HCG501SS - electrical ignition P=0.1W Max

Sorry wams a bit confused now in your OP you said that the instruction manual for each appliance wanted double pole isolation, why for a gas hob?

 

[wams]

2.5mm2 T&E cable feeding the ring and spurring off to the double socket.

The single oven CDA SC220 is P=2250W Max (feeder cable section 230V - 3x1.5mm2)

Hob is gas, Model HCG501SS - electrical ignition P=0.1W Max

The manufactures instructions say on each appliance:
That the extractor should be connected to a Double Pole Switch Fused Outlet using a 3A Fuse.

The hob should be connected with a Double Pole Switch Fused Outlet using a 3A fuse

And the single oven also should be connected to a Double Pole Switch Fused Outlet using a 13A fuse

 

[wams]

Yeah, we put our ovens on seperate circuits. Even though they're normally just over 2kW we still run in a 6mm for future expansion etc.

If the hob is gas then the ignitor just spurs off the ring, but if not then I think you can run them both off the same circuit if the load does not exceed something like 10 or 15kW (haven't got the book), and I'm not sure if that's with diversity either.

Colin, Which book are you refering to the big red book or the on-site guide.

Neither of the applicances have plugs so I presume thats why the manufactures advise that the appliances should be hard-wired to a Double Pole Switch Fused Spurs.

So you could connect a 3A plug to the cable of the hood and spur it off the ring?

Could you put a 13A plug on the cable for the single oven and a 3A plug for the ignition of the gas hob in the new double socket that is spurred from a single socket on the ring, but I presume the chances of the single socket overloading is high as its drawing more power?


Whats your thoughts?