Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything!

[HappyHippyDad]

My customer wants to fit round sockets and switches. He has sent me a link to the back boxes that are required.

A few questions..

1. Has anyone fitted these before (see links below)? if so, did the backboxes take much longer than normal 25mm boxes? I believe they are 46mm deep or even 66mm??!! Do they need cementing in as I don't think they have screw holes? They look like a pain! No variable lug on one side, so has to be fitted perfectly level!!

2. The sockets will be unswitched. I can't see a problem with this as Table J1 in OSG shows a plug and socket as acceptable for isolation (and even functional switching) but thought I'd check?

3. Any other unforeseen problems using this style of socket/switch and backbox?

Backbox Kaiser back box for solid walls - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/kaiser-backbox-solid-wall/
Dimmer Duroplast Dimmer Round - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/duroplast-led-dimmer-round-switch/#what-you-need-to-know
Socket Roo Nigra Socket - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/katypaty-roo-nigra-socket/?attribute_pa_finish=black-matt&attribute_pa_function=single-unswitched
Switch

Bakelite Rotary Round - Swtch

A faithful re-invention of the rotary switch common in Europe in the 1910s and 20s, made from that much-loved, classic material of the era: Bakelite. This

www.swtch.co.uk

What a PITA . Still, you charge accordingly

 

[Dustydazzler]

The round boxes that I have fitted for certain under-floor heating controls are much deeper than your typical plaster box and do take a bit more faffing about with to get level. The ones I have fitted also have various spouts top and bottom for euro style conduit which make the box even bigger to chop in.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

The round boxes that I have fitted for certain under-floor heating controls are much deeper than your typical plaster box and do take a bit more faffing about with to get level. The ones I have fitted also have various spouts top and bottom for euro style conduit which make the box even bigger to chop in.

Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?

You can drill a small hole in the box as the ones I fitted are plastic and just screw it back. But if you are worried about it shifting around it might be wise to whack a bit of muck in around the box to hold it steady

 

[snowhead]

From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

We can also supply specialist Kaiser tools, for example very handy plastic fixing rings that hold the box in its cavity without filler/cement. We also have templates to space the holes for multiple boxes or double box installation. Get in touch to find out more.

THIS PRODUCT CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED TOGETHER WITH A SWITCH OR SOCKET

 

[HappyHippyDad]

From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

We can also supply specialist Kaiser tools, for example very handy plastic fixing rings that hold the box in its cavity without filler/cement. We also have templates to space the holes for multiple boxes or double box installation. Get in touch to find out more.

THIS PRODUCT CAN ONLY BE PURCHASED TOGETHER WITH A SWITCH OR SOCKET

Thanks Snowhead,

Could you link the plastic fixing rings please? I can see a number of other accessories but not that one.

 

[snowhead]

Thanks Snowhead,

Could you link the plastic fixing rings please? I can see a number of other accessories but not that one.

I couldn't see them, I think you have to contact the supplier.

But from a different site that has a lot of Euroboxes, check out the video as well including the plaster covers

Klemmfix

for fitting boxes without plaster in openings made with Ø 82 mm hole saw for all types of masonry For one-gang boxes and one-gang junction boxes with depth stop

myknxstore.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

I had issues a few months ago looking for sockets for a German built kit house, but the back box looked like these… but in orange. They did have a fixing tab. (Tightening the small screws brought tabs forward and gripped the dry lining.)

Not had time to look at your supplier pages, but are these built to BRITISH standards or is it like the child safety plug shields that none of us like?
Ie, using proper BS sized plugs could damage the sockets of not BS themselves?

 

[kropaske]

There is the brackets:

Kaiser "Klemmfix" back box brackets - Swtch

Screw-less mounting system for solid wall backboxes which dramatically reduces installation time. Boxes will be 10mm proud of wall surface and extension rings

www.swtch.co.uk

There is spacing tool:

Kaiser back box drilling template - Swtch

Level and drilling template for European back boxes. Makes lining up multiple back boxes at the correct distance simple and accurate. Spirit levels for

www.swtch.co.uk

And here is video how to use it:

Remember those are only good if you dot and dab or thick plaster the wall, otherwise can't really use them as the box will protrude by 10mm. I would squeeze some expanding foam before placing them in the hole.

They are easy to install as opening is round so you can drill it and its done. Positioning maybe little bit trickier. Do it as you would normally do - make openings for boxes, do the channels for cables, set the boxes using those clips and foam or bonding (add bit of cement if you want to goes off quicker) and run cables. There are special positioning tools but for one off its not worth buying and you probably would not find it in UK anyway.

 

[wolfatswtch]

Thanks Dusty. Can you remember if you had to cement them in?

Hi there, I work for Swtch - happy to answer your questions as best as I can. We have quite a few bits of information on fitting round boxes, such as a couple of videos from the manufacturer of the boxes. As you probably know, round boxes are the norm in most European countries, so there is a wealth of experience and tools available. Probably best if you get in touch via [email protected] and we'll send you some more specific links.

Is it only solid walls you need to fit the switches/sockets in, or do you have plasterboard ones too? Drilling a round hole in board for each box is actually much quicker, but in brick it's obviously a different matter. Those "Klemmfix" clamps are very useful, as @snowhead mentioned.

From the link, might be worth investigating, the fixing rings may allow adjustment of the box after fixing,

Kaiser "Klemmfix" back box brackets - Swtch

Screw-less mounting system for solid wall backboxes which dramatically reduces installation time. Boxes will be 10mm proud of wall surface and extension rings

www.swtch.co.uk

Slightly cringe-y video, but it explains the concept:

 

[wolfatswtch]

Apologies, it took a while to get registered on this forum, so the reply I wrote earlier is already a bit behind the times!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi there, I work for Swtch - happy to answer your questions as best as I can. We have quite a few bits of information on fitting round boxes, such as a couple of videos from the manufacturer of the boxes. As you probably know, round boxes are the norm in most European countries, so there is a wealth of experience and tools available. Probably best if you get in touch via [email protected] and we'll send you some more specific links.

Is it only solid walls you need to fit the switches/sockets in, or do you have plasterboard ones too? Drilling a round hole in board for each box is actually much quicker, but in brick it's obviously a different matter. Those "Klemmfix" clamps are very useful, as @snowhead mentioned.

We'll that's a bit of luck .
Another question has popped up after watching the video clip.
I think most of the boxes will be going into brick walls. It looks like the plastic rings that go around the box stop the box from initially being flush with the wall. They seem to stick out about 10mm. This then gets plastered in.
What happens if the majority of walls are not being plastered? Just the chases and sockets being plastered in. It seems a bit crazy that you have to plaster an entire wall if you are just fitting one new socket into it.

 

[kropaske]

Those clips are only suitable when wall is dot and dab or fully plastered afterwards, otherwise set your boxes flush using bonding/foam/screws or whatever you prefer

 

[James]

Surely if fitting in a wall, (solid) instead of having to bolster out a rectangle it is easier to core drill a round hole to depth and then break the core out.

 

[wolfatswtch]

We'll that's a bit of luck .
Another question has popped up after watching the video clip.
I think most of the boxes will be going into brick walls. It looks like the plastic rings that go around the box stop the box from initially being flush with the wall. They seem to stick out about 10mm. This then gets plastered in.
What happens if the majority of walls are not being plastered? Just the chases and sockets being plastered in. It seems a bit crazy that you have to plaster an entire wall if you are just fitting one new socket into it.

As @kropaske says, they are really intended for walls that are going to be plastered afterwards. But I had a quick search on a couple of German electricians' forums and a few people there say that they use the Klemmfix clamps for unplastered finishes too, by cutting off the 4 little "grabber" hooks once the box is in:

As for your comment about the boxes being perfectly level, the advantage of round boxes is of course that you can rotate them a bit (until the bonding has set). Also, the switch/socket inserts can still be rotated as well before tightening the screws:

Hope that helps!