Customer wants round back boxes and round sockets, round everything!

[HappyHippyDad]

My customer wants to fit round sockets and switches. He has sent me a link to the back boxes that are required.

A few questions..

1. Has anyone fitted these before (see links below)? if so, did the backboxes take much longer than normal 25mm boxes? I believe they are 46mm deep or even 66mm??!! Do they need cementing in as I don't think they have screw holes? They look like a pain! No variable lug on one side, so has to be fitted perfectly level!!

2. The sockets will be unswitched. I can't see a problem with this as Table J1 in OSG shows a plug and socket as acceptable for isolation (and even functional switching) but thought I'd check?

3. Any other unforeseen problems using this style of socket/switch and backbox?

Backbox Kaiser back box for solid walls - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/kaiser-backbox-solid-wall/
Dimmer Duroplast Dimmer Round - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/duroplast-led-dimmer-round-switch/#what-you-need-to-know
Socket Roo Nigra Socket - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/katypaty-roo-nigra-socket/?attribute_pa_finish=black-matt&attribute_pa_function=single-unswitched
Switch

Bakelite Rotary Round - Swtch

A faithful re-invention of the rotary switch common in Europe in the 1910s and 20s, made from that much-loved, classic material of the era: Bakelite. This

www.swtch.co.uk

What a PITA . Still, you charge accordingly

 

[HappyHippyDad]

As @kropaske says, they are really intended for walls that are going to be plastered afterwards. But I had a quick search on a couple of German electricians' forums and a few people there say that they use the Klemmfix clamps for unplastered finishes too, by cutting off the 4 little "grabber" hooks once the box is in:

View attachment 98885

As for your comment about the boxes being perfectly level, the advantage of round boxes is of course that you can rotate them a bit (until the bonding has set). Also, the switch/socket inserts can still be rotated as well before tightening the screws:

View attachment 98886
View attachment 98887

Hope that helps!

Yes, it does . Thankyou.

 

[littlespark]

This is one I took out of the German built kit house. There were little tabs that screwed up on the sides, but they fell off - lost in the van somewhere.
The smaller screws are what hold the accessory in place.

The hollow walls in this particular house were plasterboard with wood sheet behind… but that might have been only in the room I was in as it was plant room…. Boiler, consumer unit etc.

Drilling a round hole… with corer or holesaw does seem a quicker way…. But for plasterboard? A pad saw can make quick work of a square hole.

 

[DPG]

Wait while customers start wanting triangle shape accessories It'll be the next big fashion thing I reckon.

 

[Dustydazzler]

these are type of boxes that i have sometimes fitted which came with underfloor heating mats some of my customers have supplied to me

the boxes come with these long spouts

 

[HappyHippyDad]

This is one I took out of the German built kit house. There were little tabs that screwed up on the sides, but they fell off - lost in the van somewhere.
The smaller screws are what hold the accessory in place.

The hollow walls in this particular house were plasterboard with wood sheet behind… but that might have been only in the room I was in as it was plant room…. Boiler, consumer unit etc.

Drilling a round hole… with corer or holesaw does seem a quicker way…. But for plasterboard? A pad saw can make quick work of a square hole.

View attachment 98913View attachment 98914

View attachment 98915

Thanks for taking the time to take pictures, that's kind of you.

 

[littlespark]

Thanks for taking the time to take pictures, that's kind of you.

i should have binned it.... but hey, it came in handy.

 

[Markyd]

How thick are the walls...may need fixing with adhesive anyway

 

[123]

My customer wants to fit round sockets and switches. He has sent me a link to the back boxes that are required.

A few questions..

1. Has anyone fitted these before (see links below)? if so, did the backboxes take much longer than normal 25mm boxes? I believe they are 46mm deep or even 66mm??!! Do they need cementing in as I don't think they have screw holes? They look like a pain! No variable lug on one side, so has to be fitted perfectly level!!

2. The sockets will be unswitched. I can't see a problem with this as Table J1 in OSG shows a plug and socket as acceptable for isolation (and even functional switching) but thought I'd check?

3. Any other unforeseen problems using this style of socket/switch and backbox?

Backbox Kaiser back box for solid walls - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/kaiser-backbox-solid-wall/
Dimmer Duroplast Dimmer Round - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/duroplast-led-dimmer-round-switch/#what-you-need-to-know
Socket Roo Nigra Socket - Swtch - https://www.swtch.co.uk/product/katypaty-roo-nigra-socket/?attribute_pa_finish=black-matt&attribute_pa_function=single-unswitched
Switch

Bakelite Rotary Round - Swtch

A faithful re-invention of the rotary switch common in Europe in the 1910s and 20s, made from that much-loved, classic material of the era: Bakelite. This

www.swtch.co.uk

What a PITA . Still, you charge accordingly

Rewire I am doing at the moment has a variety of these switches going in (no sockets, though, they will be mostly out of sight and something we are more used to).

1. Chopping out a wall doesn't take very long really. But the entry points to these boxes is quite far back. Slight quirk on rewire I am on is due to way doors are hinged that light switches are back to back quite often. Nice hole in the wall in a few rooms.

2. No issue

3. Yes, the switches are very deep. Not much room behind them. Go with the deep boxes if you can.
Get customer to order everything they need & want, and set it all out beforehand. Some of the multi gang light switch stuff may end up going on metal flush boxes depending on setup, but any of the round stuff won't. The figure of 8 stuff is an absolute PITA to set the boxes for spacing.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

No variable lug on one side, so has to be fitted perfectly level

As Wolf points out, with European fittings the mounting screws go through slots that form arcs of a circle, so that the fitting can rotate exactly about its centre before tightening. UK fittings can't have slots because the screws have traditionally been exposed. European fittings normally have the screws and flange concealed behind a snap-on bezel or full-width switch rocker. Like many aspects of electrical materials, different conventions have evolved in different locations to achieve the same general result.

Switches have always been optional on BS1363 sockets but in the UK we're quite attached to them, unlike much of the rest of the world. FWIW Denmark also quite likes switched sockets.

 

[wolfatswtch]

As Wolf points out, with European fittings the mounting screws go through slots that form arcs of a circle, so that the fitting can rotate exactly about its centre before tightening. UK fittings can't have slots because the screws have traditionally been exposed. European fittings normally have the screws and flange concealed behind a snap-on bezel or full-width switch rocker. Like many aspects of electrical materials, different conventions have evolved in different locations to achieve the same general result.

Switches have always been optional on BS1363 sockets but in the UK we're quite attached to them, unlike much of the rest of the world. FWIW Denmark also quite likes switched sockets.

So (asking as a layperson) what is your opinion on some electricians' objection to unswitched sockets because of the possibility of arcing? We hear this sometimes from installers who flat-out refuse to consider them.

Denmark are pretty quirky all round in terms of sockets. They officially allow installation of Type E and K but also C and F! They have the friendliest looking sockets though:

 

[wolfatswtch]

Rewire I am doing at the moment has a variety of these switches going in (no sockets, though, they will be mostly out of sight and something we are more used to).

Good to hear!

3. Yes, the switches are very deep. Not much room behind them. Go with the deep boxes if you can.
Get customer to order everything they need & want, and set it all out beforehand. Some of the multi gang light switch stuff may end up going on metal flush boxes depending on setup, but any of the round stuff won't. The figure of 8 stuff is an absolute PITA to set the boxes for spacing.

Yes, in solid walls the "joining" plates are a bit fiddly to get right, but you can push the boxes together to create multiples:

For plasterboard there are moulded double back boxes available, which make the process much easier:

 

[DPG]

So (asking as a layperson) what is your opinion on some electricians' objection to unswitched sockets because of the possibility of arcing? We hear this sometimes from installers who flat-out refuse to consider them.

Denmark are pretty quirky all round in terms of sockets. They officially allow installation of Type E and K but also C and F! They have the friendliest looking sockets though:

View attachment 98935

I personally do not like unswitched sockets. Why would you risk the arcing when someone plugs a high current appliance in, especially if they are a bit sluggish when inserting the plug.

 

[wolfatswtch]

I personally do not like unswitched sockets. Why would you risk the arcing when someone plugs a high current appliance in, especially if they are a bit sluggish when inserting the plug.

So you would be happy to install them where it will be mostly low current appliances (lamps etc) but not above a kitchen worktop for example (kettle etc)?

Also, AFAIK the appliance has to be switched on for arcing to occur. So someone would have to hold down the switch of a kettle while slowly plugging it in or unplugging it. Is that correct?

 

[DPG]

So you would be happy to install them where it will be mostly low current appliances (lamps etc) but not above a kitchen worktop for example (kettle etc)?

Also, AFAIK the appliance has to be switched on for arcing to occur. So someone would have to hold down the switch of a kettle while slowly plugging it in or unplugging it. Is that correct?

I wouldn't install non-switched sockets generally, unless there is a good reason (fridge freezer etc.). You can't predict what someone is going to plug in, especially if extension cords are involved.

Yes a kettle would need to be switched on but, as an example, I've got a wallpaper steamer which doesn't have an on/off switch and is on full load when plugged in.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I feel a bit guilty now You've all written so much and we even have a supplier helping out!! However, the customer is having a rethink, erring towards a more British rectangle...

Quickly runs away......