Dam those hidden junction boxes

[Octopus]

Been out to a call out this afternoon to a house with most of their downstairs lights not working. Owners say they "failed" at the same time that a bulb blew.

So I've looked at each lighting point in turn and my conclusion is that above, (or there abouts) each and every light, is a hidden junction box ..... Why oh why, do people think they can have junction boxes "sealed" in the space between the ceiling and the floorboards above!!

Just to top off the day, I found that most of the circuits weren't labelled, both of the lighting circuits had 2 cables connected and the neutrals didn't match the MCBs in any way, now did any of the new circuits added when an extension was done about 3 years ago have ANY labelling.

Plus I had to go back later as they discovered their heating wasn't working and it turned out that the heating controller (which is upstairs) is spurred off the the offending downstairs lighting circuit AND the real pain is that the plumber has fitted the new tank almost directly in front of the fused spur for the c/heating controller. Mindful they have a young child they now have c/heating operating courtesy of an extension lead and a plug!

Going back Monday to lift carpets and boards!!

Rant over!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i see you`l have a bit on then Murdoch.....mind you.....cant be as bad as the "joint box house" we were at a while ago.....about 20-30 odd of the chuffin things there.....and in inacessable places n all.....dont know why they do it and as for not clearly labeling/identifying circuits.....well theres no excuse for that one really....just slack innit.....

 

[Lucas]

Such a terrible way to wire to a big JB and leaving it in the Ceiling.

We went to a job up in Kensington that the previous contractors had been kicked off of. Was a bunch of Russian's and the spark's was known as Igor.

Anyway, we looked at their work, looked reasonably neat. Looked at the lighting and it was a complete shambles. He didn't have a fixed way of wiring it. Some was to the rose and some was to the switch so it was a nightmare trying to find out how he had done it. Anyway after seeing there was only one cable at each wall light we investigated and found a massive set of cables were he was going to make all his joins above the bathroom ceiling, he done this three times for each room. Say in 20 years time something went wrong how on earth are you ever going to find the other end to find the problem. That's why I argue to the death the best way is to take everything to the switch.

 

[Engineer54]

''That's why I argue to the death the best way is to take everything to the switch.''

Yeah!! .....Fill that box up instead!!! Geezus!!

 

[Specialist]

Worst 1 I ever saw for junction boxes was a big house on the coast, all lights both up / down wired to junction boxes mounted in the attic. Total of 16 JB's all 6T 20a & most with 2 lights / switches through them & nothing marked. must have wasted a fortune on cable & belive me a total nightmare to fault find on.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well that "joint box house" as we have christened it....it wasn`t just the lighting........every final in that place was loaded up with joint boxes...some with covers on...others without.........one of the best ones we saw was this place where the guy had jointed onto vir......and just gone from point to point....tocreate the illusion of a ring.....no earth at any of the points on it..lolffs......

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Worst 1 I ever saw for junction boxes was a big house on the coast, all lights both up / down wired to junction boxes mounted in the attic. Total of 16 JB's all 6T 20a & most with 2 lights / switches through them & nothing marked. must have wasted a fortune on cable & belive me a total nightmare to fault find on.

My mums house is like that, on Monday I've got to hit the loft to get the Christmas tree so will have a proper count up

As i'm nearly qualified (actually am for Part P but going for JIB gold card first) she's after free work and i'm doing my best to avoid it as she lives in a huge 1920's house (nearly 3000 sq ft), which still has the original lathe and plaster walls and ceilings with original dado/picture rails and coving, full of wall lights, surface mounted boxes, spurs after spurs after spurs, outside lights run of the spurred, spurs etc etc ...All run off a 4 way CU with a 63a RCD as main switch running the lot (its actually a 5 but one of them is for the garage CU which is right next to the main CU in the garage?!)

 

[Specialist]

My mums house is like that, on Monday I've got to hit the loft to get the Christmas tree so will have a proper count up

As i'm nearly qualified (actually am for Part P but going for JIB gold card first) she's after free work and i'm doing my best to avoid it as she lives in a huge 1920's house (nearly 3000 sq ft), which still has the original lathe and plaster walls and ceilings with original dado/picture rails and coving, full of wall lights, surface mounted boxes, spurs after spurs after spurs, outside lights run of the spurred, spurs etc etc ...All run off a 4 way CU with a 63a RCD as main switch running the lot (its actually a 5 but one of them is for the garage CU which is right next to the main CU in the garage?!)

Go on & sort it out for her, thats proper Electrics that is :tounge_smile:

 

[Specialist]

well that "joint box house" as we have christened it....it wasn`t just the lighting........every final in that place was loaded up with joint boxes...some with covers on...others without.........one of the best ones we saw was this place where the guy had jointed onto vir......and just gone from point to point....tocreate the illusion of a ring.....no earth at any of the points on it..lolffs......

Earths ? what you want those things for ? everything still works without them
Was told by an old Brewery sparky I worked with years ago that Manufacturers only put Earths in cables so they can charge you more money.

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Go on & sort it out for her, thats proper Electrics that is :tounge_smile:

I'd love to as she's getting old and the CU is at the front of the garage about 8ft up in the air. But, i'm of the view that if it works and its within limits leave it be.

At most i'll change the board to a full RCBO job and try to get it into the house (which due to the layout/existing cable runs isn't going to happen) or at the back of the garage and split the circuits as best possible. But that is about it

 

[Engineer54]

I'd love to as she's getting old and the CU is at the front of the garage about 8ft up in the air. But, i'm of the view that if it works and its within limits leave it be.

At most i'll change the board to a full RCBO job and try to get it into the house (which due to the layout/existing cable runs isn't going to happen) or at the back of the garage and split the circuits as best possible. But that is about it

A Gold Card JIB holder would be able to sort that little lot out for his mum, ...No Trouble!! lol!!!

 

[Specialist]

I'd love to as she's getting old and the CU is at the front of the garage about 8ft up in the air. But, i'm of the view that if it works and its within limits leave it be.

At most i'll change the board to a full RCBO job and try to get it into the house (which due to the layout/existing cable runs isn't going to happen) or at the back of the garage and split the circuits as best possible. But that is about it

Was only having a joke with you mate, if your mum is getting on then the best thing you can do for her is to make it as safe as possible & hopefully make the CU accessible.

 

[fuzzydunlop]

A Gold Card JIB holder would be able to sort that little lot out for his mum, ...No Trouble!! lol!!!

Any suggestions on how to rip up oak floors, bypass wallpaper at £50 a roll, original dado/picture rail and coving, without disturbing lathe and plaster which has the weight of concrete blocks i'd be grateful ;o)

Specialist I know you are, if I was an another way inclined i'd be on here telling the forum about how it's all a code 1 as it doesn't comply with 17th ;o)

 

[Engineer54]

Any suggestions on how to rip up oak floors, bypass wallpaper at £50 a roll, original dado/picture rail and coving, without disturbing lathe and plaster which has the weight of concrete blocks i'd be grateful ;o)

Now your just making excuses!! lol!!

 

[Specialist]

Any suggestions on how to rip up oak floors, bypass wallpaper at £50 a roll, original dado/picture rail and coving, without disturbing lathe and plaster which has the weight of concrete blocks i'd be grateful ;o)

Specialist I know you are, if I was an another way inclined i'd be on here telling the forum about how it's all a code 1 as it doesn't comply with 17th ;o)

The Dado / Coving is'nt the hard bit, but the 50 quid a roll wallpaper ? don't think i'd want to be responsible for messing that up either at the end of the day mate, you don't have to upgrade it to the 17th as long as it's safe & fit for purpose. There's 1000's of properties out there that are not up to 17th but still safe. All you can do is your best for your mum.