damn DNOs and not seeing to their responsibilities

GLENNSPARK · Jan 23, 2012

evening all....
Been at a house today .....couldn`t get a Ze.....Zs ok funnily enough.....turns out that the property was using a shared earth....pulled from next door.....quite common for the houses on that row....anyway,....so we couldn`t get a Ze....as only 199V between line-earth...turns out that the armourings of the incoming wearn`t earthed at all and the property was using extrainious metalwork as an "earth"....so the DNO guy gets round....but couldn`t get into next door to see whats going on at the head in there....."is a PME connection on the cards" i says...."well,....cant do that till the earthing is sorted" (he refered to it as bonding)....gonna be a carry on here methinks......and with that he suggests a TT with upfront rcd....i have to mention here that we had just installed RCBOs into the existing C/U for our work done.......so can see the price rising drastically for the customer....now i know that DNOs have a responsibility to THEIR property as far as earthing is concerned....but as their property (incoming) isn`t even earthed.......surely its for them to sort it out......oh and its a TNS.......well supposed to be anyway..lol......

mg_smile:

Knobhead · Jan 24, 2012

Glen, our very own Don Quixote.
View attachment 10182
The legislation is there but how you get the ogres at the DNO to accept responsibility. I don’t know.

malcolmsanford · Jan 24, 2012

Glenn problem is that there are so many places knocking around that have had DIY TN-S created, by a sparks in the past in fairness to the DNO, I would imagine it is a nightmare.

If there as been a breakdown on the next door cable, and it's lost the earth, then the guy is going to have to arrange, roads to be dug up and repair, which is not going to happen there and then, and his suggestion of making your installation a TT, with RCD protection is valid.

It's happened to me a few times over the years, and I even known the DNO themselves fit an upfront RCD on a dodgy TN-S, but that was when it was the good old CEB, and not a bunch of Frenchmen running it

How did it end up mate, was his suggestion a "temp" fix until they repaired the incomer.

GLENNSPARK · Jan 24, 2012

Thanks Malc...well we got into next doors today..(the owner was out but kindly left us a key).....to find 2 heads....(1) presumably at the original position feeding the other (2)...about 4 meters away....so good.....the armoured feed to next door comes out of head (2).....but no earth to the armouring...hence no Ze to next door.......now then,....the homeowners have been on to the DNO today and have said they were told that they would have to have a TT put in..either by themselves at £150...quite competitive...or by us.........the homeowner has opted for a PME link to be instated at a cost of £159.....but about 8 weeks waiting time...to me quite obsene..... which still leaves us with the problem of a property with an ongoing supply with no earth ...so we can rod it temporarily......or maybe another option would be to link the incoming neutral (at the incoming side of the incomer..to the earth bar......but i dont like this.......i mean do meters isolate in both polls?....as in lose the meter..lose the earth.....thoughts and ideas please guys...
Thanks.
Glenn.:wacko:

GLENNSPARK · Jan 24, 2012

both the next door heads (1 &2) are PME connected by the way....

GLENNSPARK · Jan 24, 2012

another thing here n all......both blanks each side of the cutout at the house in question....are missing......like IP nowt X...lol.....

Engineer54 · Jan 24, 2012

Has there been any sign at head 2 of a previous earth connection?? If there has been, then it's down to the DNO to provide the PME connection...

I ask, because they would have disconnected the TN-S sheath connection at head 2 when they PME'd that service head...

1shortcircuit · Jan 25, 2012

Where are the pictures Glenn?

:thumbsup

GLENNSPARK · Jan 25, 2012

yes...sorry guys....no pics as yet...i really should know better.lol......anyway,....both head1 and head 2 in the nextdoor property are PME`d....but as far as i can tell..what they`v done is disconnect the armoured sheathing feeding next door at head 2...thus no earth.....but as this is PME`d at source (head 2)....then whats the DNO`s issue with providing a PME link at the property in question.....rather than demanding that the client either "rods it"...or pays an extorsionate amount for what will be about 15 mins. work?.....not just that either...apparently the woman at the DNO callcentre was rude and intimidating to the clients (senior folk with no knowledge of electricity or where they stand).......and when i asked the DNO operative about the lack of earthing to their property....he snapped at me as well...
..." IT AINT OUR EARTH"!!) makes you wonder if they attend the training school for nobs?

Engineer54 · Jan 25, 2012

Well, if there was a DNO supplied earth originally at head two, that supplies the property your working on, They should have PME'd that property at the same time!! They shouldn't be claiming anything from your customer, as they have a duty to maintain an earthing point that they have provided. So if they PME'd the source of that earth then it goes without saying they need to provide that earthing point at your customers service head too!!

Can't you help this old couple out, by talking to the engineering section of the DNO direct instead of the obnoxious tart that knows nothing about anything?? lol!!!

GLENNSPARK · Jan 25, 2012

Engineer54 said:
Well, if there was a DNO supplied earth originally at head two, that supplies the property your working on, They should have PME'd that property at the same time!! They shouldn't be claiming anything from your customer, as they have a duty to maintain an earthing point that they have provided. So if they PME'd the source of that earth then it goes without saying they need to provide that earthing point at your customers service head too!!

Can't you help this old couple out, by talking to the engineering section of the DNO direct instead of the obnoxious tart that knows nothing about anything?? lol!!!

well as it happens...my boss has rodded it today....dropped out the RCBOs and up front RCD`d it....got a good Ra by all accounts n all...but Anyway...seems the client doesn`t want the hassle of it all......so does this mean that the DNO has "won"??.....pathetic innit.....