DC Injection brake

[gazj82]

Hi there,

I went to a woodworking saw today, long story short, the breaking unit had failed.

Anyway I planned to change the unit, like for like, the unit is a BA9024 which has been superseded by a BA9034 which is fine. Problem is, the motor is single phase, but the tech documents for the existing BA9024 show circuit diagrams for a 3 phase motor. The unit was set up to inject DC over phase and neutral on the current setup, rather than over 2 phases. I am unsure if this what may have caused the existing unit to fail.

I have had plenty to do with motors, DOL and Star delta starters over the years, but not huge amounts to do with DC injection breaking. Should a 230V breaking system be used rather than a 400v system?

I don't wnat to blindly copy what may have been someone Else's mistake when fitting the original.

Thanks
Gary

 

[plugsandsparks]

I would ring up tech support for said machine tool and establish the original brake for SP motor and take it from there. cheers P&S

 

[gazj82]

The machine never came with a brake, it's an addition unfortunately.

 

[Marvo]

Is the brake addition an official retrofit by the motor manufacturer or is it something that's been cobbled together. Can you post usa few pictures of the failed unit? How exactly did it fail?

 

[gazj82]

Just looked up the company who supplied the machine (second hand I would presume), according to the sticker on the brake, they deal in woodworking machinery. You would hope they would know, but there is no telling.

 

[gazj82]

Oh there was an another drawing in addition to the brake manufacturers drawing, the drawing was drawn by the machine supplier, but even that drawing was for a 3 phase motor, it had been edited in pen for single phase.

 

[netblindpaul]

Who was the machine OEM, who was the machine supplier, who is the brake OEM?

 

[netblindpaul]

Just looked, this seems to be a Dold dc module?

 

[netblindpaul]

So this is a 1ph motor & control, with a Dold BA9024, dc injection module?

 

[gazj82]

Yes

 

[netblindpaul]

Yes does not answer all my questions gaz!

 

[plugsandsparks]

OK, if it were me, I would ring up dold tech support and give them your sp motor details and ask them for a 230v suggested wiring diagram and fuse protection etc ect etc, if one has failed it could well be that it has been asked too much of it. Have found a wiring diagram for 9024 on single phase but its very similar to TP. Looks like they rely on external fuse protection so it looks like they need setting up with ammeter to make sure you don't melt the electronics.. cheers P&S

 

[netblindpaul]

gaz,
I can't believe that you can't competently transpose the wiring from one model unit to another.
I've done such a thing hundreds of times, even fitting different dc modules is actually quite easy, IF you understand how they work and what they do.
If you don't then please leave such things to those who do.

 

[gazj82]

I thought that was one question!

Yes it is a single phase motor, Yes it is a single phase control circuit (230V contactor coil), Yes a BA9024 is used connected to a 230v supply rather than a 400v supply, Yes it using the BA9024 injection module.

Sorry if I have misunderstood your question, sometimes it's hard to interpret what people mean in text only rather than face to face.

 

[gazj82]

I didn't say I could not do this, I can! I am quite capable of following any wiring diagram. What I am asking is if the original product clearly marked for use for 3 phase motors can be used on a single phase system when the manufacturers documentation clearly never mentions single phase motors. I am asking if the original product was correct!

 

[netblindpaul]

You still have not answered my questions.
Who is the machine OEM?
Who is the machine supplier?
Who is the brake OEM?

I am flabbergasted that you cannot transpose the wiring for a simple module.
Mind, you do need to ensure that if you do this, and things go wrong, remembering that this is a safety related modification that you are undertaking, so you are negating the CE mark on the unit, that you are suitably insured as such, this is not like for like replacement remember.
You are undertaking a design modification to the safety related parts of the control system.
You need to be competent to do this, and if it goes wrong insured, and, public liability will not cover you remember.

 

[gazj82]

I really can't be bothered to take this crap! I think your totally missing the point of my post! And it's insulating to be told I am not competent to undertake such work!

Forget it, I really don't know why I bother with these forums, all I was looking for was a second opinion.

 

[Knobhead]

Here we go again!

 

[plugsandsparks]

I really can't be bothered to take this crap! I think your totally missing the point of my post! And it's insulating to be told I am not competent to undertake such work!

Forget it, I really don't know why I bother with these forums, all I was looking for was a second opinion.

Steady on, I have given you one, SP is used with 9024, you need Dold support for setting it up. I ring manufacturers all the time, why guess when you can have a nice doc from them. Just rang Bosch today, spoke to a nice chap called Graham who answered my question in 20 seconds. Problem solved and off to site.

 

[gazj82]

Don't get me wrong, I will ring the manufacturers, just were not going to do it out of hours last night, I ring Hager and RS Technical at least a couple of times a year, they are most helpful.

It's just everyone immediately jumps on the incompetent wagon way to early on this forum without knowing nothing about the guy starting the thread. I mean I have been on the tools for 15 years, there has been an electrical contractor in my family for the last 50 years. Even with mine and the older generations experience we still don't pretend to know it all like some people do. Everyone comes across something they haven't dealt with occasionally no matter how long they have been in the game.

I think I may have missed your previous post that the 9024 is single phase compatible. Thank you for that information, I shall ring tech and ask them if the same applies to the 9034 replacement.

Sorry rant over, I hate ranting it's not my usual style, I'm usually so pleasant

 

[plugsandsparks]

Its no sweat, I only tend to help fellow sparkies who are dealing with the usual problems of "the unknown" you appeared to me to know what you were doing, in fact I could have been faced with the same problem and would have questioned the info just like you did. Ignore the superheroes, they live in a world in their own mind.