Deciding if something is notifiable...

[jaydub]

Just installed a new 2-way RCD incomer board in a garage / car port. It is fed from a 'commercial' car workshop unit, but it's unclear as to whether the garage is domestic or commercial, i think really it would be tied in with the guys house but because it's supplied from the commercial unit, does this make it commercial?

If it is classed as commercial, this would mean that it does not fall under part p, so I would assume not notifiable? If in people's opinion the garage falls under domestic, would it then become notifiable?

I have full test results for my installation and everything is satisfactory under BS7671, I just don't see that point in putting a cert on it if I do not need to...

Let me know what you think, cheers

 

[The Ghost]

If you are saying a house with a garage has had a supply to an adjacent commercial garage there are probably future problems with that. I would say it is domestic and should have been supplied from the house. Only because if they sell the house and the garage (not commercial garage, domestic car port) will be in the strange position of having a supply from another property. Or if you sell the garage (commercial garage) they may want the supply to the house next doors garage removed. Perhaps I have misread your post? Can you draw a piccy?

 

[telectrix]

if the supplier's meter is in the car workshop, then anything fed from it is commercial, so part pee does not apply.you do, however, need to provide an EIC.

above is apart from any concerns expressed by vortigern concerning future disputes.

 

[Andy78]

I have full test results for my installation and everything is satisfactory under BS7671, I just don't see that point in putting a cert on it if I do not need to...

You need to issue an installation certificate regardless of any requirements to notify the work or not.

 

[jaydub]

The garage is that has had the installation is about 3 meters away from the commercial unit and about 20 meters from the house, I've explained it in a very confusing way, apologies for that.

As for the EIC, I'm with stroma, so would you just use their online software (which then notifies LABC I assume) or is there another program/app that people use JUST to literally make nice neat digital EIC's that could be printed or e-mailed?

Cheers

 

[Andy78]

You can use any EIC that contains the right info. You can download model forms for free off the IET website to print and hand write, you can but duplicate forms to hand write, you can also buy many different certification software packages to assist you doing this.

The Stroma online cert is also another option but I have no idea if this would automatically notify the job, but assume not. A notification is usually done in your installer portal.

I don't think this job sounds as if it will be notifiable as the supply is not shared with a dwelling, but Stroma would be the people to ask being your scheme provider.

 

[jaydub]

Okay thats helpful, cheers

 

[Wilko]

If the garage is on the same title as the house then it's likely to be considered as part of the domestic dwelling and its outbuildings, imho

 

[jaydub]

Okay, well to be fair I have no idea, the guy just wanted it all done 'through the business' so that's how it went down.

 

[jaydub]

Next question, unrelated to this job... When writing up an EIC for a new consumer unit in a domestic dwelling, would you put the extent of installation covered by this cert as 'the entire installation'?

The reason I ask is that even though I have changed the board and fiddled with EVERY circuit, I have not had anything to do with the actual installation of the circuits and wiring...

Also, when writing a certificate for this would it be an EIC with a schedule of test results and inspection or an EICR with schedule of tests and inspections?

 

[Andy78]

Next question, unrelated to this job... When writing up an EIC for a new consumer unit in a domestic dwelling, would you put the extent of installation covered by this cert as 'the entire installation'?

The reason I ask is that even though I have changed the board and fiddled with EVERY circuit, I have not had anything to do with the actual installation of the circuits and wiring...

You would write the extent of work as "Change of consumer unit. Testing carried out for all existing circuits" or something similar.

 

[jaydub]

Thanks Andy

 

[jaydub]

Also, when writing a certificate for this would it be an EIC with a schedule of test results and inspection or an EICR with schedule of tests and inspections?

 

[Andy78]

Are you very new to the trade ?

I'm not trying to be rude, but some of these questions are quite basic in their nature.

 

[Upton Sparks]

The reason I ask is that even though I have changed the board and fiddled with EVERY circuit, I have not had anything to do with the actual installation of the circuits and wiring...

But if you asking this because there are some item you think are a bit rough, or you know there rough, then make a comment on the Electrical installation certificate,

"The installation is to a poor standard, cables have been poorly installed, and a EICR should be under taken".
Or
" The standard of installation is of an unsatisfactory standard"

It may not be your installed work but you're there, and if its wrong, say it, you might get some more work out of it at best and at worst if something happen then the customer cant say, " but I had a spark in and he didn't say there was anything was wrong with it your honour.... look I've got this paper work"

 

[jaydub]

Andy, I would say that the questions are basic if you know the answers to them. I'm new to be self employed and new to issuing certificates. It's not until you reach this point that you realise the things that you have never learnt during employment because you've never needed to do them. So give a man a chance... it's not that I cannot carry out high quality installation work, I just have the odd question regarding the fine details of issuing certs so that whenever I do something, I do it correctly.

 

[Richard Burns]

Also, when writing a certificate for this would it be an EIC with a schedule of test results and inspection or an EICR with schedule of tests and inspections?

Because you have changed the consumer unit this action requires an electrical installation certificate relating to the change of consumer unit.
Part of the work of changing a consumer unit is assessing that the circuits which are connected to it are safe for connection to the consumer unit so the schedule of test results should show values for all the circuits fed from this consumer unit.

An EICR is a report on the safety for continued use of an existing installation to which no changes have been made.

Regarding the application of Part P then so long as the garage is being used for commercial purposes then notification would not be required because the supply and the garage are both commercial. If the garage is being used for domestic purposes then even though it is in the land of the dwelling the building is not attached to the dwelling and the supply is commercial so part P would still not apply.
If the supply came from the house or the garage was attached to the house then part P would apply.

It would be a good idea to download and read the approved document for part P of the building regulations so that you know what is required.

 

[jaydub]

Thanks Richard, that is extremely helpful, I will download and read that document.

 

[Andy78]

Andy, I would say that the questions are basic if you know the answers to them. I'm new to be self employed and new to issuing certificates. It's not until you reach this point that you realise the things that you have never learnt during employment because you've never needed to do them. So give a man a chance... it's not that I cannot carry out high quality installation work, I just have the odd question regarding the fine details of issuing certs so that whenever I do something, I do it correctly.

I was not questioning your competence at all, chill man, no need to be defensive. Was only a simple question without judgement or agenda.

 

[jaydub]

Apologies Andy, I kind of thought I was being told off for being useless Thanks for your pointers

 

[Andy78]

Apologies Andy, I kind of thought I was being told off for being useless Thanks for your pointers

Not at all. I have once been where you were. I worked as an employee under a QS system which saw me doing little to no testing and zero certification.
I was asking so I could offer you better help really.

Section 6 of the regs is informative regarding certification types and their use.

 

[davesparks]

Also, when writing a certificate for this would it be an EIC with a schedule of test results and inspection or an EICR with schedule of tests and inspections?

This is clearly explained in bs7671 and in the guidance to the person filling in the certificate which is a part of the model form and most printed certificate pads available from the schemes.

I have no issue with people asking questions, but if the answer is clearly written in the regulations book in an obvious location then you have to expect people to start wondering.

 

[jaydub]

I must admit it does seem obvious now... just nervous about doing things wrong.

 

[Octopus]

I must admit it does seem obvious now... just nervous about doing things wrong.

MWC = change to existing circuit
EIC = new circuit, rewire, fuseboard change
EICR = Inspection of existing installation

Notification = different in England and Wales - best you read the relevant document.