Disconnect, grounding and mechanical protection requirements when bringing power to a chicken coop...

[kreyszig]

Hi,

I want to bring 2 x 20A (@120V) to a chicken coop. It will be powered from my garage panel which will require 140' of cable. 85' in the garage along 2 walls, and 55' buried between the garage and the coop. I used a few voltage drop calculators and it looks like I will need a 6/3 to stay within 3% drop between the garage and the coop. I will have a dual pole 20A breaker in the garage connected to the 6/3 cable, and then I will share the neutral between the two phases in the coop. Note that the 60A electrical panel of my garage is also fed by the house through a 6/3 cable and it is located at about 50' from the house. In the coop I will have a of GFCI-protected outlets powered by one phase, and another set powered by the other phase.

The questions I have are regarding the best way to accomplish this. Because it is a coop, I don't have much room inside, so I don't want to have a subpanel in there because I could not really meet the 30" workspace requirements. I would like to use a continuous 6/3 NMWU cable. Even if the cable will be buried 24" in the ground, I would like to use a PVC pipe for mechanical protection (not to pull the wire through) between the garage and the coop. In the garage, I will run the wire along two walls at about 8' above grade. My understanding is that mechanical protection is not required if above 5'. Is this correct?

In the coop, I wanted to connect two 12/2 cables to my 6/3 cable in a junction box. My understanding is that I must also use a grounding electrode, according to 2015 CEC, because it is a building housing livestock:

10-208 Grounding connections for two or more buildings or structures supplied from a single service
Where two or more buildings or structures are supplied from a single service,
(a) the grounded circuit conductor at each of the buildings or structures shall be connected to a grounding
electrode and bonded to the non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical equipment; or
(b) except for buildings housing livestock, the non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical equipment in
or on the building or structure shall be permitted to be bonded to ground by a bonding conductor run with the feeder or branch circuit conductors.

Note that there is no grounding electrode in my garage, it is connected to the ground through the 6/3 coming from the house.
If I need to use a grounding electrode for the coop, should I bind the grounding wires of my two 12/2 to the grounding electrode through a #4 wire in my junction box? Should I leave the grounding wire from the 6/3 disconnected on the coop side? I should not bind the neutral in the coop to the grounding electrode. Is this right?

I will just have a few GFCI outlets in my coop. Is there a need for a disconnect box?

Thanks!

 

[DPG]

Welcome to the forum. What sort of electrical appliances will your chickens be using?

I'm sure one of our American members will be along to advise soon.

 

[James]

Welcome to the forum. What sort of electrical appliances will your chickens be using?

I'm sure one of our American members will be along to advise soon.

Haven’t you seen the film chicken run?
Normal usage is,
Power tools and runway lighting.

More serious note, I expect the usage will be combined lighting and heating lamps.

 

[kreyszig]

Welcome to the forum. What sort of electrical appliances will your chickens be using?

I'm sure one of our American members will be along to advise soon.

Thank you! There will be a ~1000 W water barrel heater to prevent water from freezing in winter and a water pump to circulate their water. I want to keep an option to have heating lamps. There will be some LED lights. I also need electricity for some actuators (automated door, ventilation dampers) and some electronics (embedded computer, camera, etc). Having outlets to be able to power some tools if needed can be useful as well. In the future I want to cover the roof of the coop+run with solar panels, and feed the power back to the house. I might also but some panels nearby in the field and use the same cable to carry the electricity back.

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Haven’t you seen the film chicken run?
Normal usage is,
Power tools and runway lighting.

More serious note, I expect the usage will be combined lighting and heating lamps.

Hehe The water heater in the winter should be the main draw. I am trying to avoid heating lamps, but I want to keep it as an option.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi,

I want to bring 2 x 20A (@120V) to a chicken coop. It will be powered from my garage panel which will require 140' of cable. 85' in the garage along 2 walls, and 55' buried between the garage and the coop. I used a few voltage drop calculators and it looks like I will need a 6/3 to stay within 3% drop between the garage and the coop. I will have a dual pole 20A breaker in the garage connected to the 6/3 cable, and then I will share the neutral between the two phases in the coop. Note that the 60A electrical panel of my garage is also fed by the house through a 6/3 cable and it is located at about 50' from the house. In the coop I will have a of GFCI-protected outlets powered by one phase, and another set powered by the other phase.

The questions I have are regarding the best way to accomplish this. Because it is a coop, I don't have much room inside, so I don't want to have a subpanel in there because I could not really meet the 30" workspace requirements. I would like to use a continuous 6/3 NMWU cable. Even if the cable will be buried 24" in the ground, I would like to use a PVC pipe for mechanical protection (not to pull the wire through) between the garage and the coop. In the garage, I will run the wire along two walls at about 8' above grade. My understanding is that mechanical protection is not required if above 5'. Is this correct?

In the coop, I wanted to connect two 12/2 cables to my 6/3 cable in a junction box. My understanding is that I must also use a grounding electrode, according to 2015 CEC, because it is a building housing livestock:



Note that there is no grounding electrode in my garage, it is connected to the ground through the 6/3 coming from the house.
If I need to use a grounding electrode for the coop, should I bind the grounding wires of my two 12/2 to the grounding electrode through a #4 wire in my junction box? Should I leave the grounding wire from the 6/3 disconnected on the coop side? I should not bind the neutral in the coop to the grounding electrode. Is this right?

I will just have a few GFCI outlets in my coop. Is there a need for a disconnect box?

Thanks!

@KERYSzig first off the mechanical protection is 7 feet not 5 feet is your chicken coop made of wood and you need 6/3 with a ground, if you are going to run pipe set a 6x6x4 junction box on the outside of your coop to pipe into. You say you have two 20 amp dual pole breaker I guess that they are the slim breakers. You already know all receptacles have to be GFCI
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Hi,

I want to bring 2 x 20A (@120V) to a chicken coop. It will be powered from my garage panel which will require 140' of cable. 85' in the garage along 2 walls, and 55' buried between the garage and the coop. I used a few voltage drop calculators and it looks like I will need a 6/3 to stay within 3% drop between the garage and the coop. I will have a dual pole 20A breaker in the garage connected to the 6/3 cable, and then I will share the neutral between the two phases in the coop. Note that the 60A electrical panel of my garage is also fed by the house through a 6/3 cable and it is located at about 50' from the house. In the coop I will have a of GFCI-protected outlets powered by one phase, and another set powered by the other phase.

The questions I have are regarding the best way to accomplish this. Because it is a coop, I don't have much room inside, so I don't want to have a subpanel in there because I could not really meet the 30" workspace requirements. I would like to use a continuous 6/3 NMWU cable. Even if the cable will be buried 24" in the ground, I would like to use a PVC pipe for mechanical protection (not to pull the wire through) between the garage and the coop. In the garage, I will run the wire along two walls at about 8' above grade. My understanding is that mechanical protection is not required if above 5'. Is this correct?

In the coop, I wanted to connect two 12/2 cables to my 6/3 cable in a junction box. My understanding is that I must also use a grounding electrode, according to 2015 CEC, because it is a building housing livestock:



Note that there is no grounding electrode in my garage, it is connected to the ground through the 6/3 coming from the house.
If I need to use a grounding electrode for the coop, should I bind the grounding wires of my two 12/2 to the grounding electrode through a #4 wire in my junction box? Should I leave the grounding wire from the 6/3 disconnected on the coop side? I should not bind the neutral in the coop to the grounding electrode. Is this right?

I will just have a few GFCI outlets in my coop. Is there a need for a disconnect box?

Thanks!

Please don’t install a ground rod, it’s a code violation. The rods are for your main panel outside you home any panel after that you have to keep the grounded and grounding conductors separate. You can splice your grounding conductors and you need a ground wire at every outlet. I read about your loads and 1000 watt heater and other loads in the future. Just be careful that you don’t put to much load than you can handle with just two 20 amp circuits. You don’t need a disconnect at the coop since it’s in the garage panel

 

[kreyszig]

@KERYSzig first off the mechanical protection is 7 feet not 5 feet is your chicken coop made of wood and you need 6/3 with a ground, if you are going to run pipe set a 6x6x4 junction box on the outside of your coop to pipe into. You say you have two 20 amp dual pole breaker I guess that they are the slim breakers. You already know all receptacles have to be GFCI

Thank you. In my summarized code book based on CEC 24th edition it says:

Rule 12-518 - Where loomex cable is run on the surface of the wall and within 1.5 m (59 in.) from the floor, as is often the case in buildings of solid wall construction, the cable must be protected from mechanical damage with wood or similar moulding

What is the other 7 feet rule? Note that my question was regarding protection of the cable within the garage. In the coop the cables will be protected everywhere.

Please don’t install a ground rod, it’s a code violation. The rods are for your main panel outside you home any panel after that you have to keep the grounded and grounding conductors separate. You can splice your grounding conductors and you need a ground wire at every outlet. I read about your loads and 1000 watt heater and other loads in the future. Just be careful that you don’t put to much load than you can handle with just two 20 amp circuits. You don’t need a disconnect at the coop since it’s in the garage panel

Hmm, this also seems to differ from the information I had. Is it only because I don't have a sub-panel in the coop that I should not install a ground rod? Otherwise according to Rule 10-208 I quoted earlier it seemed I must install a ground rod/plate for a building housing livestock. In my summarized code book it says

Rule 10-212 - Says the gounded circuit conductor must be bonded at each building. This has nothing whatever to do with the question of livestock in the building. This is service neutral grounding and it is required at every building without exception. Subrule (b) does not apply to the grounded neutral. Note that it refers only, and specifically, to the non current carrying metal parts, such as the metal conduit, the metal outlet boxes etc. but does not refer to the neutral conductor. This Subrule allows these non current carrying metal parts to be bonded back to the main service panel although it is difficult to see why anyone would want to do this. Subrule (b) will permit a separate bonding conductor to be run with the supply conductors back to the main panel if the building is not used for livestock. This is strictly bonding of electrical equipment and if we provided this bonding conductor we would still be required to ground the neutral as shown. The point here is that in every case the neutral must be grounded at every building. See also Rule 10-212(1)

My understanding of the above paragraph was that in a building used for livestock, a ground rod/plate is the only allowed method to bind the grounded circuit conductor. This is what they show in the pictures they provided as well. In their typical garage installation fed by a house panel, there is no grounded circuit conductor coming from the house; they use a grounding rod. In addition, they say I should also ground the neutral in my coop. So, unless things differ due to the lack of sub-panel in my coop, I should bind together the neutrals from my 6/3 and 12/2s to the ground wires from my 12/2s and ground them using a rod/plate? The grounding of my neutral conductors would be done at a single point in my junction box where the pipe enters in the coop.

 

[Megawatt]

Thank you. In my summarized code book based on CEC 24th edition it says:

Thank you. In my summarized code book based on CEC 24th edition it says:

What is the other 7 feet rule? Note that my question was regarding protection of the cable within the garage. In the coop the cables will be protected everywhere.



Hmm, this also seems to differ from the information I had. Is it only because I don't have a sub-panel in the coop that I should not install a ground rod? Otherwise according to Rule 10-208 I quoted earlier it seemed I must install a ground rod/plate for a building housing livestock. In my summarized code book it says


My understanding of the above paragraph was that in a building used for livestock, a ground rod/plate is the only allowed method to bind the grounded circuit conductor. This is what they show in the pictures they provided as well. In their typical garage installation fed by a house panel, there is no grounded circuit conductor coming from the house; they use a grounding rod. In addition, they say I should also ground the neutral in my coop. So, unless things differ due to the lack of sub-panel in my coop, I should bind together the neutrals from my 6/3 and 12/2s to the ground wires from my 12/2s and ground them using a rod/plate? The grounding of my neutral conductors would be done at a single point in my junction box where the pipe enters in the coop.

What is the other 7 feet rule? Note that my question was regarding protection of the cable within the garage. In the coop the cables will be protected everywhere.



Hmm, this also seems to differ from the information I had. Is it only because I don't have a sub-panel in the coop that I should not install a ground rod? Otherwise according to Rule 10-208 I quoted earlier it seemed I must install a ground rod/plate for a building housing livestock. In my summarized code book it says


My understanding of the above paragraph was that in a building used for livestock, a ground rod/plate is the only allowed method to bind the grounded circuit conductor. This is what they show in the pictures they provided as well. In their typical garage installation fed by a house panel, there is no grounded circuit conductor coming from the house; they use a grounding rod. In addition, they say I should also ground the neutral in my coop. So, unless things differ due to the lack of sub-panel in my coop, I should bind together the neutrals from my 6/3 and 12/2s to the ground wires from my 12/2s and ground them using a rod/plate? The grounding of my neutral conductors would be done at a single point in my junction box where the pipe enters in the coop.

If you read 10-208.b it states that the grounded conductor has to be pulled from your garage panel with the other wires and you cannot tie your grounding and grounded together. The 7 foot rule is let’s say overhead lights, conduits and wire. If you want to drive a ground rod go ahead, but I’m assuming the coop is wood so what’s the ground rod for
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Thank you. In my summarized code book based on CEC 24th edition it says:

What is the other 7 feet rule? Note that my question was regarding protection of the cable within the garage. In the coop the cables will be protected everywhere.



Hmm, this also seems to differ from the information I had. Is it only because I don't have a sub-panel in the coop that I should not install a ground rod? Otherwise according to Rule 10-208 I quoted earlier it seemed I must install a ground rod/plate for a building housing livestock. In my summarized code book it says


My understanding of the above paragraph was that in a building used for livestock, a ground rod/plate is the only allowed method to bind the grounded circuit conductor. This is what they show in the pictures they provided as well. In their typical garage installation fed by a house panel, there is no grounded circuit conductor coming from the house; they use a grounding rod. In addition, they say I should also ground the neutral in my coop. So, unless things differ due to the lack of sub-panel in my coop, I should bind together the neutrals from my 6/3 and 12/2s to the ground wires from my 12/2s and ground them using a rod/plate? The grounding of my neutral conductors would be done at a single point in my junction box where the pipe enters in the coop.

You need to read 10-208 and no where does it say to drive a grounding electrode

 

[kreyszig]

If you read 10-208.b it states that the grounded conductor has to be pulled from your garage panel with the other wires and you cannot tie your grounding and grounded together. The 7 foot rule is let’s say overhead lights, conduits and wire. If you want to drive a ground rod go ahead, but I’m assuming the coop is wood so what’s the ground rod for

My understanding is that I cannot use 1-208.b for a chicken coop because it is housing livestock. For any other type of building my understanding is that either 10-208.a or 10-208.b can be used for the grounding conductor

You need to read 10-208 and no where does it say to drive a grounding electrode

Isn't it exactly what 10-208.a says?

(a) the grounded circuit conductor at each of the buildings or structures shall be connected to a grounding electrode and bonded to the non-current-carrying metal parts of the electrical equipment; or

 

[Carl S]

Have a look at section 250 in NFPA-NIC 2017

Areas with any livestock require special attention to earthing. Ufer or peripheral earthing would be my choice.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi,

I want to bring 2 x 20A (@120V) to a chicken coop. It will be powered from my garage panel which will require 140' of cable. 85' in the garage along 2 walls, and 55' buried between the garage and the coop. I used a few voltage drop calculators and it looks like I will need a 6/3 to stay within 3% drop between the garage and the coop. I will have a dual pole 20A breaker in the garage connected to the 6/3 cable, and then I will share the neutral between the two phases in the coop. Note that the 60A electrical panel of my garage is also fed by the house through a 6/3 cable and it is located at about 50' from the house. In the coop I will have a of GFCI-protected outlets powered by one phase, and another set powered by the other phase.

The questions I have are regarding the best way to accomplish this. Because it is a coop, I don't have much room inside, so I don't want to have a subpanel in there because I could not really meet the 30" workspace requirements. I would like to use a continuous 6/3 NMWU cable. Even if the cable will be buried 24" in the ground, I would like to use a PVC pipe for mechanical protection (not to pull the wire through) between the garage and the coop. In the garage, I will run the wire along two walls at about 8' above grade. My understanding is that mechanical protection is not required if above 5'. Is this correct?

In the coop, I wanted to connect two 12/2 cables to my 6/3 cable in a junction box. My understanding is that I must also use a grounding electrode, according to 2015 CEC, because it is a building housing livestock:



Note that there is no grounding electrode in my garage, it is connected to the ground through the 6/3 coming from the house.
If I need to use a grounding electrode for the coop, should I bind the grounding wires of my two 12/2 to the grounding electrode through a #4 wire in my junction box? Should I leave the grounding wire from the 6/3 disconnected on the coop side? I should not bind the neutral in the coop to the grounding electrode. Is this right?

I will just have a few GFCI outlets in my coop. Is there a need for a disconnect box?

Thanks!

Kerry yes you do have a grounded in your panel in you garage and yes if you pull 6/3 with ground you will have a grounded conductor to your chicken coop. I don’t know why you keep saying that, I told you that all that is done at the main service and it’s not a so called neutral it’s a grounded conductor so don’t splice your grounds with your grounded conductor, they are supposed to be kept separate after the main panel