DIY enthusiasts and electrical work.

[Pete999]

Probably a well thought and commonly discussed subject. I know the Forum has a DIY section, and has a policy of not offering step by step advice on how to do various electrical work, a good policy in my book, and I think many, if not all Electricians would agree with.

However this policy does not deter many DIYers and people who think they are Electricians from asking questions in very suspicious ways on "how do I do this that or the other, or I have been to B&Q and bought this and that, how would you do so and so.

It's difficult at times to explain to these people, that it's a dangerous thing to try and help without being off hand, and sometimes, when they won't or can't understand why you are reluctant to help, why won't you help the Guy in B&Q sold me this stuff and said it was easy as he was an Electrician because he had done a meaningless course, and he is now qualified as an Electrician.

With all the hype of Part P etc, do you not think the problem lies with the Government, the CPSchemes or who, I do realist that the likes of B&Q, Srewfix etc are a Godsend on a weekend or Bank Holiday when someone calls you up with a problem, and these are just a couple of outlets whereby you can get materials at short notice.

Where do you think the answer lies? should there be a ban on outlets like the two I have mentioned from selling electrical installation products to the public, should these outlets Police the selling of these products to qualified people, restrict selling this gear to the Trade areas, it would be interesting to share your thoughts, without prejudice, and I do realise this subject has been through the mill many times, the main reason I posted is that I was at B&Q the other day getting my tool fix, and happened to pass through the Electrical bit, and being a nosy git, I got speaking to this Bloke who was after some cable and sockets to wire his new extension, and found the price the Sparky was quoting far to high and as it was only a couple sockets he would do it himself, so why was he asking advice? where or who dose the problem lie with? Sorry for the long winded ramble.

 

[MDJ]

and I've never owned a copy of the UK regs.

Well I've never thrown a spear at a lion so we both have our faults

 

[TJ Anderson]

Anyone can work on their own car but they still need an MOT.
This is the Law
Anyone can work on their own house but planning permission may be needed and any alteration or addition to the electrical system is notifiable to the Local Building authority.
This is the Law.

No, only certain works are notifiable as specified by Part P of the Building Regulations.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Anyone can work on their own car but they still need an MOT.
This is the Law
Anyone can work on their own house but planning permission may be needed and any alteration or addition to the electrical system is notifiable to the Local Building authority.
This is the Law.

No, only certain works are notifiable as specified by Part P of the Building Regulations.

 

[TJ Anderson]

In my new extension I plan to do first fix electrical myself, partly because I can save a bit of money and jump in between the other trades when there is an opportunity (in the evenings), but mostly because I will know it's been done neatly. In the rest of the house I'm sick of wonky backboxes and in one case the cable pulled through across a sharp edge so hard that it's gone through the outer sheath and part stripped the live. But hey, it tests ok so...

I also investigated a dodgy MCB that kept tripping, only to discover that one end of the ring main (sockets) was terminated into the MCB, the other was slightly discoloured and actually sat just above the screw terminal and basically just making light contact with the first. The house was built 6 years ago and was one of hundreds on the estate so no doubt some very young and unmotivated sparks were involved. I'm sure I would get a far better result from an independent local spark with a reputation to protect - but it's still pretty galling how bad some 'professionals' are.

Why not 2nd fix it then too?

 

[oracle]

True I should have said "May be notifiable"

 

[Deuce]

Why not 2nd fix it then too?

Because I'm creating new circuits and not a spark is the easy answer. I could complete and ensure it's safe but I can't self certify.

I employ the services of a few sparks through my business, and I can double check what to route where with them in advance (in this case no checking needed, it's literally just a 32a ring). When it's all in but not hooked up, they can make the final connections, test and certify.

In short, by saving them the laborious part of the work I can pay them in retained loyalty as we have a working relationship, and some beer.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Because I'm creating new circuits and not a spark is the easy answer. I could complete and ensure it's safe but I can't self certify.

I employ the services of a few sparks through my business, and I can double check what to route where with them in advance (in this case no checking needed, it's literally just a 32a ring). When it's all in but not hooked up, they can make the final connections, test and certify.

In short, by saving them the laborious part of the work I can pay them in retained loyalty as we have a working relationship, and some beer.

If you've got an electrician who will do what you want for you then you might as well 2nd fix too, then even less for them to do and you can get more experience. They can still check your terminations as part of their initial verification of the install.

 

[Deuce]

If you've got an electrician who will do what you want for you then you might as well 2nd fix too, then even less for them to do and you can get more experience. They can still check your terminations as part of their initial verification of the install.

That's a grey area, it means trusting my connections upon visual inspection, or literally pulling each connection to check it was stripped correctly and full contact is made ( in the same time they can just make their own connections). My connections would easily pass resistance testing even if they weren't 'ideal'.

Maybe I'm too nice a person but for me, for the sake of paying for a little time for them to be 100% confident in what they're signing off on, it's a good balance. I have no doubt they would trust my connections, but still I'm happy to pay for a few hours for them to own the job they're signing off on. And as I mentioned, I'm mostly paying in beer anyway, and I'll often go as far as to help them drink their payment.

 

[Midwest]

I've not been keeping up with this thread, and not read every post, so apologies if this has already been mentioned here, or if it has been mentioned elsewhere.

Whilst in my throne room, I was reading the latest copy of PE, when I came across this piece;

NAPIT Sets Out Significant Reforms to the Building Regu - https://www.napit.org.uk/news/article/NAPIT-Sets-Out-Significant-Reforms-to-the-Building-Regulations.aspx

So thats me out of stuff.

 

[Deuce]

I've not been keeping up with this thread, and not read every post, so apologies if this has already been mentioned here, or if it has been mentioned elsewhere.

Whilst in my throne room, I was reading the latest copy of PE, when I came across this piece;

NAPIT Sets Out Significant Reforms to the Building Regu - https://www.napit.org.uk/news/article/NAPIT-Sets-Out-Significant-Reforms-to-the-Building-Regulations.aspx

So thats me out of stuff.

Further tightening of regulation seems pointless, at this stage they may as well just simply state that ANY electrical work of any nature must be carried out by a trading, qualified spark and be done with it.

A sad day for DIYers such as myself but it's already pretty tough to be certain of what I am permitted to do.

 

[Midwest]

they may as well just simply state that ANY electrical work of any nature must be carried out by a trading, qualified spark and be done with it.

Thats exactly Napit's proposal for the domestic market.

 

[Deuce]

Thats exactly Napit's proposal for the domestic market.

To include all minor works too? For example, replacing a light fitting on like for like basis. If so, that's gonna become annoying, frankly a little castrating..

 

[Midwest]

Couldn't agree more.

Up until the end of May, I was in a scheme. If these proposals were taken up, from June onwards I would not be complying with the 'legal requirements', even to work in my own house.

I do agree though, that something should be done about the scope of electrical diy work, even if it is in your own house.

 

[telectrix]

I've not been keeping up with this thread, and not read every post, so apologies if this has already been mentioned here, or if it has been mentioned elsewhere.

Whilst in my throne room, I was reading the latest copy of PE, when I came across this piece;

NAPIT Sets Out Significant Reforms to the Building Regu - https://www.napit.org.uk/news/article/NAPIT-Sets-Out-Significant-Reforms-to-the-Building-Regulations.aspx

So thats me out of stuff.

.that statement has some merit in that it calls for all electrical work to be carried out by a competent electrician. with which i agree 100%. reading between the lines however, it's advocating more income for the various robdog scams.

 

[Deuce]

.that statement has some merit in that it calls for all electrical work to be carried out by a competent electrician. with which i agree 100%. reading between the lines however, it's advocating more income for the various robdog scams.

If it goes far enough to cover replacing of lights/sockets like for like then B&Q and such will no doubt start offering a fitting service with every such item sold, and probably at surprisingly low cost "Would you like us to schedule an electrician to fit these for you? It's £10 per light including electrical safety testing"... they could easily afford to do that as their in house sparks would be booked up back to back 40 hours a week, akin to a sky/broadband engineers schedule.

That's progress..