Do I need to join a scheme to sign off Minor Works Certificate?

[ziddyshin]

Hi, I would like to do some minor domestic electrical work while I am completing my NVQ level 2 in electrical installations. I have the 18th edition and part P qualifications as well as an NVQ level 2 in inspection and testing. However, I have read and heard from other electricians that you need an electrician who is a member of a competent person scheme to do the testing and fill in the minor electrical work form for any work done. Is this true as I thought these schemes were for notifiable work only?

Cheers

 

[davesparks]

To sign a certificate you should be competent.

You need to be in a scheme to notify work that falls under part P.

 

[ziddyshin]

To sign a certificate you should be competent.

You need to be in a scheme to notify work that falls under part P.

I think my current qualifications and experience makes me competent enough for minor works tbh but I am not in a scheme. So any minor works, like changing a plug socket like for like requires an electrician in a scheme to do the tests and fill in the form. Ok guess I wont be doing that until I am fully qualified then!

 

[Flanders]

Changing a socket like for like is not notifiable work .so if you are competent and have the relevant test equipment you should be able to carry out this work. you can use a model cert from the regs book

 

[ziddyshin]

Changing a socket like for like is not notifiable work .so if you are competent and have the relevant test equipment you should be able to carry out this work. you can use a model cert from the regs book

Thats is where I am confused, I only want to do minor electrical work that is not notifiable, I think my current qualifications and the current course I am on makes me competent for that level of work. Some electricians have told me if the work is Part P then even if its minor, its needs an electrician in a scheme to do the testing and fill in the MEW form even though I can do this myself but I am not in a scheme.
Some electrician sites also state you need to be in a scheme to do MEW,

"Only electricians registered for Part P of the Building Regulations, with body like the ECA or NICEIC should undertake this type of electrical testing and certification."

 

[Flanders]

Some company will only be allowed to use electricians that are part of a governing body to carry out work. Check with the customer that they are ok for you to carry out the work explaining that you aren't part of a governing body. If you are just working direct for a home owner I can not see any reason why you can not carry out minor works.

 

[happysteve]

davesparks said it in as few words as is required.

I'll humbly expand on that slightly:

• you do need to be competent
• you do need to be able to competently do the inspection and testing
• with regards to the testing, for the test results to be valid, your test gear does need to be calibrated
• your client might want or need you to be a member of a Competent Person Scheme, for their own peace of mind or quality assurance (ooh, I see Flanders has noted this point since I started typing this, nice one!)

There is no requirement to be a member of a CPS to do electrical works, to do the correct verification/inspection/testing, and to do the correct certification, if all the above applies.

CPS's provide a convenient way of notifying Notifiable works to Building Control, and (they themselves would argue, but many would strongly disagree) "other benefits."

If the work is not Notifiable - or if it is Notifiable and you have an alternative route to achieve notification - then unless there are other external requirements (like client requirement) then you do not need to be a member of a CPS to do it.

Also to think about:

• some "minor works" are notifiable
• a lot of more extensive works (that require an EIC) are not notifiable

 

[Shanep92]

I stand corrected, just go for it

 

[Pretty Mouth]

and any work in a kitchen, bathroom or wet room is notifiable regardless of what it is

This isn't entirely true. Work within the zones surrounding a bath or shower is notifiable. Work within a bath/shower room but outside the zones is not notifiable.

@ziddyshin , best you get the info regarding notifiable work straight from the horse's mouth, and read approved document P:

Electrical safety: Approved Document P

Building Regulation in England covering electrical safety in dwellings.

www.gov.uk

 

[timhoward]

At level 2 you aren’t classed as and won’t be classed as competent, we aren’t wellie wearers. level 3 NVQ and the completion of an electrotechnical apprenticeship is what you’d need and what anyone would want to see.

As long as he doesn't bite off more than he can chew and knows when to stop and ask I personally don't see the harm in him getting some real-world work experience.
I'd bet he could make a very decent job of a lot of things that some people take on as DIY projects with no training at all.

 

[westward10]

At level 2 you aren’t classed as and won’t be classed as competent, we aren’t wellie wearers. level 3 NVQ and the completion of an electrotechnical apprenticeship is what you’d need and what anyone would want to see.

Qualifications and competence don't necessarily go hand in hand.

 

[davesparks]

So any minor works, like changing a plug socket like for like requires an electrician in a scheme to do the tests and fill in the form.

No, not at all, that's not notifiable under part P so no need for scheme membership.

Most people wouldn't even consider replacing a single accessory as minor works and wouldn't do much other than some basic tests to confirm it is safe and functional.

 

[KashBag]

To sign a certificate you should be competent.

You need to be in a scheme to notify work that falls under part P.

not necessarily, you can notify the building authotities yourself prior to carrying ou. So, Scheme membership is not a mst, it jus makes it easier

 

[Simon47]

Being pedantic, "Part P" is irrelevant to the thread - all it says is that electrical works need to be safe.
What IS relevant is the appendix to the Building Regulations that specifies what is or isn't notifiable - from memory it was App 4 in the 2005 BR and App 2 in the 2013 BR. In England only three things are notifiable since 2013 :

• Addition of a new circuit.
• Replacement of a CU.
• Work within the zones of a bathroom.

And that is it. Wales kept the more complicated rules from 2005. Scotland has different rules. Dunno about NI.

If you do do notifiable work, there is tge option of notifying direct to the LABC dept. However, in many cases that will cost more tgan just getting a scam member to do the work. If it's not standalone work, e.g. building an extension, then just include something like "and associated electrical works" in the BR appkucation for the project.

In terms if results, my experience is "don't ask" - just provide a professional looking set of documents and BR are likely to accept them. If you ask, you give them tbe opportunity to impose requirements such as requiring testing to be done by a scam member.

Of course the scams, err schemes, would prefer that people thought more work has to be done by their members. In support of that aim they put out documents etc. with clever wording which is "just" truthful, whike also being deliberately misleading.

 

[KashBag]

Being pedantic, "Part P" is irrelevant to the thread - all it says is that electrical works need to be safe.
What IS relevant is the appendix to the Building Regulations that specifies what is or isn't notifiable - from memory it was App 4 in the 2005 BR and App 2 in the 2013 BR. In England only three things are notifiable since 2013 :

• Addition of a new circuit.
• Replacement of a CU.
• Work within the zones of a bathroom.

And that is it. Wales kept the more complicated rules from 2005. Scotland has different rules. Dunno about NI.

If you do do notifiable work, there is tge option of notifying direct to the LABC dept. However, in many cases that will cost more tgan just getting a scam member to do the work. If it's not standalone work, e.g. building an extension, then just include something like "and associated electrical works" in the BR appkucation for the project.

In terms if results, my experience is "don't ask" - just provide a professional looking set of documents and BR are likely to accept them. If you ask, you give them tbe opportunity to impose requirements such as requiring testing to be done by a scam member.

Of course the scams, err schemes, would prefer that people thought more work has to be done by their members. In support of that aim they put out documents etc. with clever wording which is "just" truthful, whike also being deliberately misleading.

Very well formulate Simon, thanks