Do you Wago? (222 lever type)

[Deuce]

In testing and developing automated, reconfigurable control boxes/panels we often use the wago lever connectors here - they're ideal for rapidly swapping components and in general for quick assembly.

I'm curious as to whether in domestic situations you chaps are making use of them these days? I have only seen one example of one of their 222 junction boxes used by a spark in domestic, kinda surprised not to see this more often given that the box and connectors costs about £1 and takes moments to fit.

I would also assume they're a good option for jobs such as new light fittings requiring extension of the existing wires or similar.

Do you have a stash of them in your van for when time is tight or you have fallen out of love with your screwdriver?

 

[DPG]

Ah no, not additional connections. The connections and socket would be all in the main socket fitted in the back box. The screw on bit would just be a fascia.

 

[Deuce]

It needs this sort of thinking to improve things. The difficulty is getting solutions in place without spending lots of money as always. Nobody is going to buy my new sockets if I have to charge £15 each to recoup manufacturing costs!

In principle it sounds like a great idea, my only concern would be the three additional connections you've just introduced.

Granted they wouldn't be subjected to the same abuse as the humble 3 pin socket outlet, but maintaining a good solid connection is tricky over time without using things like gtold to prevent oxidation of the surfaces which could ultimately lead to localised heating in the contacts under a heavy load, which in turn could lead into the inevitable death spiral we see so often.

I understand the thoughts here - something nw has to be invented and established, so it must be low cost. It will also be a short lived 'good solution' if it doesn't last at 30 years without deteriorating. Gold seems a little excessive, but there are alternative materials in development New materials could replace costly gold in electrical applications - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101014083122.htm

Also, the layer of oxidisation that forms is generally around the contact areas of the pin that are in contact with the socket sleeve, not the areas of contact themselves. So a plug left in a socket can function well for a very, very long time. I suppose a plug pin cleaner could be used every time the plug is removed (if ever).

We could list technical challenges forever of course, the reality is that this would only ever happen if a big player effectively underwrote the cost for several years at a huge loss in order to establish the idea in the industry - and anyone with the resources to do that can sure as hell develop a plug and socket that will do the job required, no matter what the apparent difficulties might be.

 

[SparkyChick]

Ah no, not additional connections. The connections and socket would be all in the main socket fitted in the back box. The screw on bit would just be a fascia.

Well, that answers my only real concern

Just one more thought... how about a cardboard blank in the front so the spreads can't ruin them without malice and forethought

 

[telectrix]

Well, that answers my only real concern

Just one more thought... how about a cardboard blank in the front so the spreads can't ruin them without malice and forethought

or give spreads a full frontal lobotomy. whichever is easier. 2nd thoughts, finding a brain in a spread to perform said surgery is the difficult part.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Don’t Hagar make some kind of plug in rose for lights already?

 

[DPG]

Think so yes.

 

[littlespark]

I seem to remember plug in socket fronts for dado trunking?
There was 3 bus bars running the length of the trunking. The lid and box frames were then put on, and lastly the sockets were simply pushed onto the bars and screwed back.
Early 2000's? MK I think.

Would it be a far thought to have fixed connections in the back box, with connectors that suited the clips on the back of these sockets?

 

[Deuce]

I went to bed last night and found myself mulling this debate over... (not healthy but there you go).

One thing that struck is that the reason for not advancing residential electrical methods to incorporate new ideas is the age old 'not more connections' concern. But I think that's now holding progress back to the point that possibly things that could be made safer, or at very least as safe but also easier, if a few extra connections are embraced.

One such contradiction, is that under the current system, the RFC is broken and then restored every time a socket is changed/replaced. If the RFC was passed through the back box as discussed, it would never normally need to be interfered with at all. The only connections that would ever need to be made, would be between the back box and the socket front, so... either three wires, or a simple universal plug or basic contacts (like a smoke detector). Same with lighting, where the removal of a basic ceiling rose base requires the radial to be broken and then reconnected.

I feel that if electricity had just been discovered, and a team of people were sat round a table figuring out the best method to deploy it around a home, we would not end up with a system anything like the one we have now.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Spider ring.
Circuit run as a ring to JBs under the floor, with spurs off at each JB to sockets.
Right pain if you want to add another socket, as each socket is already a spur.
Then there’s electrak and lightingtrak, busbar systems which allow plugs and light fittings to be attached just about anywhere along the track.
Useful for offices with raised floors and suspended ceilings, but not much use in houses.

 

[Deuce]

Spider ring.
Circuit run as a ring to JBs under the floor, with spurs off at each JB to sockets.
Right pain if you want to add another socket, as each socket is already a spur.
Then there’s electrak and lightingtrak, busbar systems which allow plugs and light fittings to be attached just about anywhere along the track.
Useful for offices with raised floors and suspended ceilings, but not much use in houses.

Spider ring... Proper PITA, having connections hidden away under floors. And that solution really does lead to more connections overall, in addition to them being hard to reach. Just seems so much simpler to have the connections in the back box, behind a fixed plate with either a socket or contact pins to transfer the power from the ring through to the face plate.

Busbar systems are indeed great, and used in shops/industrial too in various formats. Hard to get most home-owners to accept the decor compromises for such systems though.. In many parts of Europe they manage a compromise by having the builders install conduit when the house goes up, of a large enough gauge to easily pull singles room to room, all the way back the the CU if needs be, so adding new sockets from spurs or new circuits can be incredibly quick.

 

[bailes1992]

I'm currently working on a student accommodation building as a Junior Engineer.

We have two situations where WAGO's will save a lot of time.

The first we had originally planned to use a Hager J501 junction box above a light in each of the bedrooms however they're taking more than half hour to make off. I brought into work my Wago set and showed them a typical setup that would work for the room. We got the 30+ minutes down to 7 minutes at a cost of an extra £1 a room. That seems good value for money to me!

The other situation which is less about WAGO's and more about something else that annoys me... Older sparks who think because they've never done it before it's wrong. The kitchens on this job are spotlights, there are four rows with four switches, one for each row and an emergency in the middle.

I suggested taking the feed to the light switch (47mm back boxes used) and taking the switched feeds out to each row and a feed out to the emergency. We can use WAGO's behind the light switch for the Neutrals and emergency feed for a neat finish.

I was met with "you can't take feeds to light switches, they have to be 3 plated", "I don't think you can do that, I've never done it before" and "How rough do you want this job to be?". Sometimes it's hard being a 'young engineer and trying to convince older sparks to do something different.