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I got a shock today when told the price a national company had quoted to a farmer we've quoted for a 10kW system.... ÂŁ9,495 + vat for 9.8kWp of Kinve poly panels + aurora power-one 3 phase.

I'd no idea 10kW prices had fallen below ÂŁ10k at the bottom end, and we'd originally quoted ÂŁ12.5k+ vat for a yingli Panda mono system, which seemed reasonable to me.

Luckily it turns out the Kinve panels warranty excludes sites with high levels of corrosive gases / liquids, and it's a cow shed so the amonia levels will be pretty high, so I'm hoping that'll win the day with a significantly reduced quote for 9.8kWp of Yingli poly panels, but still a few hundred above the other quote (unless he was trying it on of course).

Is this exceptional or the going rate now for cheap end 10kW systems?
 
Incidentally, I've really decided that Yingli are the only Chinese manufacturer we're going to offer as standard now, as they're offering high quality kit at competitive prices and have now grown again to being the biggest panel manufacturers in the world, overtaking Suntech last year, and their actual balance sheet looks relative healthy for 2012 unlike most.

I'm a little ****ed off that segen are mostly pushing Canadian solar now, and am on a bit of a mission to ensure they keep stocking Yingli as to my mind they're the better manufacturer, and with panda 250Wp panels competitive with the Canadian solar poly 250's I don't really see what the attraction is with Canadian solar unless you're planning to bullsh** customers into thinking they're a Canadian product.

In the words of a competing manufacturers technical sales guy - Yingli are about the only Chinese manufacturer that's really investing in R&D, and their Panda panels are really next generation compared to the bog standard mono's being churned out, with 270Wp option now available, and Panda 2's test bed module efficiencies looking like they're end up with 280-290Wp modules next in line to be rolled out.

I can see I'll regret this post if Yingli start selling out at Segen... but if any Segen installers agree with this and do plan to switch, it'd be worth dropping your segen account manager an email to let them know this is what you're planning so their ordering team can maybe reconsider their canadian solar strategy and increase their Yingli orders.
 
Sounds very cheap. We recently won an 8.64kWp job at ÂŁ10.2k after VAT. We beat our closest competitor (who also happens to be a supplier) by over ÂŁ1k.

ÂŁ9,495 is doable though. Perhaps you'll win the job as the farmer will see you have the better expertise.
 
We mostly use jetion. That is cheap, but does the price include cabling, which isn't cheap when installed per code. We had a field mount that cost almost 800 for materials and labour...just over 100 metres.
 
I am at a loss to see how it can be done at that price and still fully comply with ALL the Regs including Health and Safety.

Some of our 30kW jobs have cost over ÂŁ3000 in scaffolding, edge protection, roof protection including boards for covering skylights, harnesses, and fall arrest systems.

I was told when I left university (a while ago) before the H&SE existed, that 1 in 3 of us in the roof would be killed or very seriusosly injured on the job. I vowed then that would not be me. and nor would it happen on any of my jobs.

Good to see the comment on the main forum about a visit from the H&SE , they would be welcome to spot visit any of our jobs...

There again we will never be the cheapest...
 
ÂŁ12.5k sounds about right for 9kW in my experience, scaffolding and edge protection can be a considerable cost on large jobs. Have been using Ying Li since we started and always been happy with them.
 
I am at a loss to see how it can be done at that price and still fully comply with ALL the Regs including Health and Safety.

Some of our 30kW jobs have cost over ÂŁ3000 in scaffolding, edge protection, roof protection including boards for covering skylights, harnesses, and fall arrest systems.

I was told when I left university (a while ago) before the H&SE existed, that 1 in 3 of us in the roof would be killed or very seriusosly injured on the job. I vowed then that would not be me. and nor would it happen on any of my jobs.

Good to see the comment on the main forum about a visit from the H&SE , they would be welcome to spot visit any of our jobs...

There again we will never be the cheapest...
That's partly my concern as well, particularly after hearing about one of our local competitors who had someone fall through a rooflight on a similar barn job, somehow manage to land on the only cow in the barn to break their fall, but still end up with a broken back and wheelchair for life.

I really don't think the other companies sales guy can have taken this into account - unless they actually do employ specialist roped access teams, which is the only way we're doing it. Technically we probably shouldn't be doing roped access as we don't actually have that qualification, but me and my brother were both taught rock climbing as kids and did a fair amount of rock climbing and abseiling for quite a few years, so I don't really see that I need a piece of paper to say I've been on another 1 day course to learn to do something that's second nature to me* (and we have all the right kit for).

In this case, I actually took the decision that it might actually be safer without scaffolding as IMO the main risk is falling through one of the skylights, which scaffolding isn't going to prevent, and I reckon that in reality we're more likely to remember to always have our harness on if there's no scaffolding below us to give a false sense of security and mean we might forget to clip ourselves on.

I'll have to remember to instruct our spark not to come on the roof - he ain't trained or experienced enough for that, plus he's our ground man to assist us if one of us does go through a roof light.



*the HSE would probably want us to have the right certs I suppose.
 
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The only things you can do with skylights are
1) Cover then all up
2) Fall Arrest Systems
3) Crash Pads at ground level (big bouncy castles :) )
4) Netting.
5) Edge protection / physical barriers

We've used all 5, they all have their merits, and all cost - we have one job cost ÂŁ600 in OSB sheets, we couldn't put up netting or crash pads as there was a false ceiling below and fall arrest was too risky, and too many skylights to put protection around.
 
The only things you can do with skylights are
1) Cover then all up
2) Fall Arrest Systems
3) Crash Pads at ground level (big bouncy castles :) )
4) Netting.
5) Edge protection / physical barriers

We've used all 5, they all have their merits, and all cost - we have one job cost ÂŁ600 in OSB sheets, we couldn't put up netting or crash pads as there was a false ceiling below and fall arrest was too risky, and too many skylights to put protection around.
Agreed. To add to that, my rough logic on my options here would be...

1) Cover then all up
Someone will still need to be working around them uncovered during the process of covering them up, and I'm not really sure how to go about securing the covers in position without putting holes in the roof, plus I'm not sure how we'd actually get the covers back off again over the panels safely at the end.

2) Fall Arrest Systems
relies on remembering to clip the harness on at all times, and the experience of the worker and ability not to panic if you do find yourself dangling on a harness... as well as a suitably rapid method of rescue being available and someone reliable to implement it, as well as secure fixing points. Not suitable for inexperienced workers, but done right it can be a good option for relatively short duration work (which I personally look at as work that's not significantly longer in total than the time needed for installing and removing full netting).

3) Crash Pads at ground level (big bouncy castles :) )
too many fixed fences and the like internally in the barn for this to be an option, plus you'd be talking about an artics worth of the stuff, maybe 2. I'm also not sure what the maximum safe height is for this option?

4) To my mind, netting is an option for longer term works, but I'd expect it'd take about a day to get netting rigged, and most of another day to get it down, all of which with ladders / scaf towers and harnesses. When I only intend to be on the roof in total for 2 days, it doesn't really stack up as a sensible option safety wise in this situation.

5 - similar to 1, someone still has to install and remove them, and how secure are they in reality, plus as you say, there's usually too many separate skylights spread along the roof to make it a sensible option.


I tend towards the view that anything that significantly increases the amount of time spent working at height just to erect and remove the safety kit is actually making the problem worse not better, unless you're planning on using relatively unskilled labour on the job, and employing specialists to put the safety measures in place and remove them. If the work itself is only going to take a couple of days, be carried out by skilled experienced workers only, then roped access / fall arrest harnesses only is arguably the safest option as it minimises the actual time exposed to the danger.

But each situation needs to be assessed separately and the measures put in place accordingly - for example, if we were doing a 100kW job on the same roof I might well think that netting and scaffolding would be the safest option as the additional couple of days of specialist work putting the netting and scaffolding up would make dozens of man days much safer.

I probably ought to just copy this into my risk assessment for the job tbf.
 
got the job anyway, which is a much needed boost right now... just got to find a window in the weather to install it now.
 

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