Doing my head in .....

[SRE]

Is anyone else having problems with planning and building regs????

The latest issue is yet another listed building where there's an old studio/office at the bottom of a large garden.

Planning has said if it's within the curtilage of the house it will need listed building consent even though it's 200m from the house and has a corrugated aluminium roof! Good news is it can be done if it's deemed outside of the curtilage but because it's outside the curtilage it needs planning permission - are they having a laugh!!! Not only that but everyone else in Building control has said the install is covered under CPS apart from the guy that this customer spoke to - who said they need to be notified!

3 out of the 12 jobs I'm working on are straightforward and the rest need planning I know we're rural but surely I must be setting some sort of record?

 

[bugsy]

All sorts of accidents happen with JCB's in peoples back gardens

 

[SRE]

Wot the whole planning department

 

[Markc]

Wot the whole planning department

Well when you're on a roll, you're on a roll. Why stop at just the one office.

When listing is in place they have some very strange requirements. I have a client who's house is listed and that even includes a concrete sectional garage? Fortunately none of our PV's have encompassed Listing consent.

Conservation officers seem easy going round our way and want nothing more than a picture of what it is or may look like and that's only if it faces the road.

 

[Worcester]

Re Building Regs, just check out the 2010 ammendments The Building Regulations 2010

"Self-certification Schemes and Exemptions from Requirement to Give Building Notice or Deposit Full Plans"

Row 17 points out notification not required so long as you are a competent person, and if you are MCS certified by one on the listed bodies then you are.

However, you still have to know what the regs are and to comply with them, see also Row 20.

(A lot of building control departments haven't read that document yet)

 

[Ramjam]

My home is a listed building and you do need listed building consent. If you have a listed building then it is normal for all the buildings within the property to be covered under the curtilage. Where there are many buildings the curtilage may be restricted to 60 metres or co-joined but often all the buildings within a property are covered as a matter of course. One of the big advantages of listed buildings is however that you can always get advice from a building conservation officer who will normally come out pretty quickly to discuss potential changes. The building conservation officer has the power to write a letter advising if formal consent will be required or not. The owner should contact their building conservation officer and get him or her out for a site visit. They get very peeved if you don't consult them then they have the power to make life hell hence their reputation.

I would be surprised if it were a problem as it isn't the listed property itself and it is reversible works on a perishable party of the building (roof finish). Going ahead without advice would be folly, the advice is free and they have no interest in processing applications for listed building consent where it isn't strictly necessary because they are under a lot of pressure and it just costs time that they don't have to spare.

 

[Worcester]

Re my previous reply above, and checking the list in the building regs, it would appear that not all the MCS Certification bodies mean that you are registered as a competent person Unles your body is specifically listed, then you aren't and therefore need to make the appropriate submission to building control ... (A whole new can of worms..) The Electrical Part P is a seperate issue.

A person registered by Ascertiva Group Limited, Association of Plumbing and Heating Contractors (Certification) Limited, Benchmark Certification Limited, British Standards Institution, Building Engineering Services Competence Accreditation Limited, ECA Certification Limited, HETAS Limited, NAPIT Registration Limited, Oil Firing Technical Association Limited or Stroma Certification Limited in respect of that type of work.

 

[SRE]

My home is a listed building and you do need listed building consent. If you have a listed building then it is normal for all the buildings within the property to be covered under the curtilage. Where there are many buildings the curtilage may be restricted to 60 metres or co-joined but often all the buildings within a property are covered as a matter of course. One of the big advantages of listed buildings is however that you can always get advice from a building conservation officer who will normally come out pretty quickly to discuss potential changes. The building conservation officer has the power to write a letter advising if formal consent will be required or not. The owner should contact their building conservation officer and get him or her out for a site visit. They get very peeved if you don't consult them then they have the power to make life hell hence their reputation.

I would be surprised if it were a problem as it isn't the listed property itself and it is reversible works on a perishable party of the building (roof finish). Going ahead without advice would be folly, the advice is free and they have no interest in processing applications for listed building consent where it isn't strictly necessary because they are under a lot of pressure and it just costs time that they don't have to spare.

Thanks Ramjam, there's no suggestion that the customer would be going ahead without consent and they've all been in touch with their respective conservation and planning officers but when you live in an area where it takes 11 weeks to get bog standard planning permission never mind listed building then it's frustrating to have to wait so long after you've done all the work round quoting - especially with such a high proportion of our current work involving properties with listed building. Patience was never a strong point!

 

[TedM]

One twist with listed buildings worth knowing is that the automatic listing of all buildings within the curtilage only applies if they were built before 1st July 1948. Anything built after that date needs to be specifically listed to be affected. And it would be best if the owner has some documentary evidence to show the date of the build.

But it is Catch-22 as you would still need planning permission - you just wouldn't need the listed building consent.

 

[GreggElectrical]

Ill follow with the planning troubles! One customer was looking at pv for his grade 2 listed building. Not a chance on the roof but surely I thought a ground mount would be possible 200m from the property, at the bottom of the garden, down a hill, behind a small stable block, facing away from the road with the only person to see it a farmer and possibly vigilant pilot. NO! Planning officer told my client that he will never get permission for PV on that property.

I cover two councils nearby, one is better than the other but sometimes it seems they hate PV.

 

[BruceB]

Being listed is not a complete block.

Prince Charles was granted planning permission and listed building consent to put solar pv on Clarence House, Grade 1 listed.
Prince Charles to generate his own power with solar panels on Clarence House | Mail Online
http://idocs.westminster.gov.uk:8080/WAM/showCaseFileDocs.do?appNumber=10/05598/FULL
http://idocs.westminster.gov.uk:8080/WAM/showCaseFileDocs.do?appNumber=10/05599/LBC

Owner of Over Court at Bisley Gloucestershire (Grade 2* listed) won an appeal to keep solar thermal panels on his property:
http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.u...2036.300.2.10204501&NAME=/Decision Letter.pdf

Interesting comments from the planning inspector:
“The solar panels are clearly contemporary in terms of materials and appearance, and address significant contemporary environmental concerns. In these respects, they could be regarded as part of the building’s organic history. In my view, they do not harm the character of the listed building or its special architectural and historic interest. They are also readily removable without unacceptable damage to the building’s historic fabric. Consequently, I conclude that the solar panels do not conflict with the advice in paragraph C.68 of PPG15.”

PPG15 has now been replaced by PPS5. Page 3 of the latter has:
"Where proposals that are promoted for their contribution to mitigating climate
change have a potentially negative effect on heritage assets, local planning
authorities should, prior to determination, and ideally during pre-application
discussions, help the applicant to identify feasible solutions that deliver similar
climate change mitigation but with less or no harm to the significance of the
heritage asset and its setting."

The way my local authority interprets that is that if you ask to put panels on a listed building they say no, but would you like to put them in the garden.

Regards
Bruce

 

[SRE]

It just shows how they differ, I have 2 in a National Park and fingers crossed it looks as though they will go through on adjacent buildings. Another looks as though it may go ahead actually on the roof of a listed building but the owner doesn't want the conservation officer anywhere near his house (I wonder why?!? that wall fell down !!!). All going to take over 8 weeks though meanwhile more people with listed buildings are fighting their way to our door. Lots of work, no dosh ...