Domestic Installers can’t do PIR?

[Goody]

The “NOTES FOR RECIEPIENT” on the NICEIC’s EIC states that “Periodic inspection reporting is not included within the scope of NICEIC Domestic Installer Scheme” but the Big Red / Green book says PIR can be carried out by a competent person.

Does this mean a Domestic Installer is not competent enough to do a PIR? A clarification on this is much appreciated!

Cheers!

 

[netblindpaul]

A DI cannot do a PIR under their NICEIC scope unless they have been assessed for it.
The requirement for a PIR is competence, it does not come under Part P.
So you can do a PIR if you are competent, but you cannot use the NICIEC forms related to your enrolment, as a DI, you must use the BS7671 forms, or, the NICEIC green certs, rather than the purple (DI) or red (AC) ones.

Unless that is, you have been assessed for PIR's by the NICEIC.

If you were an AC using the red forms, then this would be part of your enrolment.

 

[rob121]

Funny enough, when I had my DI assessment a couple of months ago, the assesor mentioned this. Apparently NIC are going to pull the plug on DI's being able to carry out PIR's. I dont think its going to happen immediately but he was telling me that NIC are planning on removing the domestic installer scheme, instead trying to encourage DI's to become approved contractors.

Rob

 

[Guest123]

he was telling me that NIC are planning on removing the domestic installer scheme, instead trying to encourage DI's to become approved contractors.

Rob

Surely that would be nigh on impossible for a domestic only spark to have available to show to the area engineer enough work in the many different area's of the industry to satisfy the rules for enrollment as an A.C.

Unless of course those rules are changing to allow easier access to the AC scheme.:leaving:

 

[Sickmick]

How would the kitchen/bathroom fitters etc. with limited scope (minor works only) go on, surely they can't become Approved Contractors?

 

[1shortcircuit]

A DI cannot do a PIR under their NICEIC scope unless they have been assessed for it.

Elecsa are the same :thumbsup

 

[rob121]

Not sure exactly how theyre going to do it. Thats all the assessor told me when I asked about getting the PIR extension later on. Perhaps theyre going to head down the same route as NAPIT.

 

[oldtimer]

Is this not great just when you think the registration companies are getting a handle they run about at midnight moving the goalpost but let me get this right a DI cannot do a PIR mmmmmmmmmmm well that means he or she cannot do an EIC yes or no . To me this sounds like jobs for the boys but again a conflict of interests ie the company giving the training is setting the rules so that you need to sign up for more training. I cannot wait until these registration companies are all rolled up into a "Federeration of Master Electricians" or in other words as they say here
"Its my ball and Im not playing today"

 

[Goody]

My simple argument is, if a DI has enough skills, knowledge and training to issue an EIC and sign off his work what is so different about doing a PIR. PIR too involves all the testing that one does to issue an EIC. These bodies write their own rules simply for their own profits, I guess.

 

[netblindpaul]

A lot of you are all missing the point.
ANYONE can do a PIR as long as they are competent to do so.

THe NICEIC are merely stating that you cannot do this and be covered by the scope of your enrolment, thus you cannot use the "DI" forms, you must use the forms available to everyone or the BS forms.

They are NOT saying that you cannot do this.

It is merely you cannot do this under our banner.

 

[spark 68]

Hi,
I think part of the reason is that on the basic DI scheme, you only have to comply with BS7671:2008 (soon to be 2011) and you are only testing/certifying what you have installed, and therefore have full control over, and which will (or should be) to current regs. You also don't always have to have 2391 for this.

To do PIR's you need a far greater indepth knowledge of not just the current regs but of previous regs as well, and all scheme providers insist on the 2391 for this.

The other part of the reason is because they will charge you for the extra assessments etc., and so is in part down to money.

You could still do PIR's, but just not under the umbrella of your current scheme provider, but this could cause other problems wrt if your client is say the local authority or insurance companies etc. who may very well insist that this activity is carried out under a 'scheme' banner so to speak.

Obviously you could not use your schemes sheets, letterhead etc. for this, or mislead your clients, and would still probably need the indemnity insurance, which you may have problems getting not being under a scheme.

Depending on whose scheme you are under, they may also take a dim view if you are doing PIR's not under them.

cross posted with NBP

 

[stansmith]

if anyone can do a PIR why do the 2391 why not just say were all competent at inspection and testing?

edit-spark 68 sorry just saw the post very good

 

[spark 68]

if anyone can do a PIR why do the 2391 why not just say were all competent at inspection and testing?

I think the scheme providers use this as a 'yardstick' of competency, and also if anything goes pete tong, this qualification could back up your competency level in a court of law.

It is all about ar*e covering should anything go wrong

 

[stansmith]

I think the scheme providers use this as a 'yardstick' of competency, and also if anything goes pete tong, this qualification could back up your competency level in a court of law.

It is all about ar*e covering should anything go wrong

Fair point glad ive got my 2391 now, i was thinking reading through the posts why the hell did i bother! but good point mate

 

[darking]

Who died and made nic god?

 

[bugsy]

It comes down to competance, D.Is are generally regarded as part time sparks with enough knoledge to comply with part p

This is complete ******* ( done your job for you ) but I do understand their point