Downlighting issue

[Ken Tucky]

Hello. Am not an electrician but have a question. Live in a 4 yr old Persimmon home. Whilst redecorating we decided to replace 4 outdated brass-look R80 spots in the kitchen with newer nickle-coloured halogen downlighters. Found some superb 'converters' from Lighting Styles that were wide enough to cover the holes in the ceiling. They look stunning. But when I removed the first old R80 I was surprised to find that rather than locate it between joists, the unit had been installed right next to the joist. In fact the joist starts right on the edge of the 120mmish cutout. The new downlights are LV MR16 lamps, so there would only be a distance of 5cm max between the bulb and the joist, which is I assume a complete no-no due to the heat, even with a fire hood. Aside from cutting new holes and having the ceiling replastered, is the only realistic option to replace like for like (but with a finish that's not brass). This would be a shame as we wanted a more modern look than R80 reflectors. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Spudnik]

50mm clearance is fine from the joist edge and is a minimum with a lot of fittings.

If you look in the box of your new lights, it will give you distances on the leaflet, and that should confirm it.

 

[sparks1234]

You can get a spray to put on the timber which stops burning if it helps

 

[plug444]

You say a distance of 5cm max between the bulb and the joist and you mentioned fire hoods. You should be installing fire rated down lighters, open type fittings are now old hat!!

 

[sparks1234]

You say a distance of 5cm max between the bulb and the joist and you mentioned fire hoods. You should be installing fire rated down lighters, open type fittings are now old hat!!

Not necessarily

 

[Spudnik]

Debateable really.

They SHOULD be fire rated OR have fire hoods if they are between floors.

It could be a bungalow.

 

[sparks1234]

Debateable really.

They SHOULD be fire rated OR have fire hoods if they are between floors.

It could be a bungalow.

What it actually says is that if the floor above has not got tongue and grooved boards or there are gaps then a form of fire proofing should be installed, hoods or a fireproof light

 

[Mr Mark Sparks]

What it actually says is that if the floor above has not got tongue and grooved boards or there are gaps then a form of fire proofing should be installed, hoods or a fireproof light

so a new house with t&g chipboard floors wouldnt need them

 

[sparks1234]

so a new house with t&g chipboard floors wouldnt need them

According to guidelines...yes

 

[Ken Tucky]

Thanks for your replies everyone. Didn't expect the debate! Must admit I am still slightly hesitant as I really don't want to burn the place down! Am surprised (but quite pleased) to hear that a gap of 50mm between lamp and joist would be just acceptable. Firehoods sound like a must though. Am planning to contact Lighting Styles just to check on their view as the literature doesn't include minimum distances. The house is not a bungalow but has an upstairs. Plasterboard is 12mm ish with T&G boarding above which I guess is over 20cm above the plasterboard. I have seen the fire-rated downlights with a back to them and would definitely have used them if I was installing them in a new project. Problem I have is 4 roughly sawn 120mm holes in the plastboard to fill, and apart from the Lighting Styles units, I've only seen one other R80 retrofit unit which although it has a back would have the lamp similarly close to the joist.

 

[electricAl]

Not getting on your case Ken, but just so you know, under Part P of Building Regulations what you are undertaking is notifiable work. Anything other than like for like replacement in a kitchen is deemed worthy of notification to your Local Building Control. Also, your insurance company wouldn`t play ball in the event of a claim.

Credit to you for going to the trouble of gettting advice etc - many wouldn`t & would happily bang in some 500W security lights in they fancied em.

But knowledge is power, so go canny

Oh, & the best of luck with it