E-mail your local MP?

[Paul.M]

Just an idea to cut out all the cowboys and DIY Dave's out there due to the amount of work that we are not getting.

All the forum members in England and Wales (that part p applies to) send an email to our local mp to ask what they are doing with regards to electrical safety in domestic properties? If we all send an email I hope that one mp may have the balls to address parliament. Let's make a realistic list of things that we would like to happen. Don't forget the money factor, if its cheap and easy for them to do it we have a better chance of it being put in force.

1. Just like gas, a home owner can't alter/add to electrical circuits. Work has to be carried out by an electrician with qualifications of ...blank... or a member of a scheme.

2. DIY stores can no longer sell installation equipment without seeing a scheme membership card.

3. Advertise that work done in the home has to be done by an electrician and are liable for prosecution if they DIY.

4. All homes needs to have a PIR every ten years. (giving people 5 years from now to get their first PIR done). If not done any insurance claim due to electricity will not be paid out.


If we make a point in parliament it may increase our domestic work, increase our income and increase safety in peoples homes. Please add your own and I'll pick out the ones I like and email my local mp and you can do the same.

 

[somersetsparks]

To paul - I only looked at what i had written after you had replied and realised it sounded quite Angry, I have been being a bit militant recently at work anyways, not sure why, just fed up of being stamped on by companies and the government.... you know the usual!

Well, I think we need properly qualified sparks, not just domestic installers, everyone should have a well rounded appreciation of electrical work evn if only an appreciation.
Everyone should be able to do conduit, pyro, SWA etc. And everyone should know the theory behind the wiring after all, there is a lot of stuff to get your head round to be a good sparks, i'm learning all the time.
In fact it can sometimes be harder with domestic as you make the decisions where as on big industrial jobs, that is taken about 5 levels above you!

In reply to wirepuller - I'm a DIY Mechanic, DIY Plumber and just about everything else (except plastering - that didnt go to well!). The only thing I think about cars is there is a lot less thinking invloved as you buy correct parts and replace most of the time, where as with wiring you have to buy 'raw materials' and decide howto install yourself!

 

[telectrix]

wow, somerset, can you do the brakes on the mother-in law's car?

 

[Paul.M]

As I've said Somerset I did not find your post offensive, its your own point of view and adds to this thread so we know what all of us thinks and what we believe should be changed so we can send an email. Please post up your thoughts, that's the truth and that can not be denied.

 

[Adam W]

I would agree insurance is the way forward, like with vehicles - you can't get insurance if you haven't got a valid MOT.
In a way it seems to have worked with PAT testing - insurers require it so companies get someone in to do it, although as we all know the quality of testing varies greatly.
If there were a requirement to have a valid PIR to be able to get home insurance then yes more people would get it done, although not having one shouldn't stop a property changing hands in the same way as you can still buy a car for spares or repair.
... So yes I think MOTs are the model to aspire to, but obviously buildings may be harder to 'police' because you can't stop them while they're driving down the road.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

wow, somerset, can you do the brakes on the mother-in law's car?

You can do them easily yourself!

You must wear latex gloves (finger marks are bad) and apply grease or nice thick oil to BOTH sides of all disks, job done!!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

When there is a letter drafted, I will be more than happy to bombard my local MP.

 

[somersetsparks]

Yep Novussparks I agree, I think a building should have to have one even if it shows major failure unless being sold as a project/wreck.
Then the home buyer knows what they are buying into and what should be done.
However maybe it should be the mortgage provider asking for this?

Insurance companies are definately the way to police things rather than more statutary rules I think.

 

[keefy]

This makes me wonder what, if anything, are Niceic, Elesca, Napit et all are doing on OUR behalf.

If Part P collapses their businesses will suffer, so we should lobby our scheme "holders" and MP's.

Had interesting chat with someone yesterday, NIC, NAPIT etc are not notifying Building Control about works being completed according to him! Am going to follow this up in next week or so and report back. You talk of scam, if they are not even doing what they are getting paid to do we surely have recourse to claw back some of the money spent!

 

[Mr.Si]

2. DIY stores can no longer sell installation equipment without seeing a scheme membership card.

Paul, you raise some good points and most I agree with except for the above.
What if someone's doing work to become a member of the scheme in the first place and therefore at the time of buying they have no scheme membership?

Maybe it could allow for people with proof of different qualifications such as 17th and 2391 or just 2330...

Otherwise there'd be a catch 22 situation: Can't buy materials to do job because not in part p scheme, but can't join scheme as can't buy materials for the job.

Just a thought

 

[baldelectrician]

I think there should be a tightening up

Part P should be scrapped in favour of a less draconian system

The Scottish Building Standards system may be adopted in Northern Ireland as they have decided Part P is not for them

The Scottish system needs more improvement, but it's far better than part P

You only need a building warrant (permission to do certain work) for jobs that alter the structure, layout or number of usable rooms amongst other things

The council look for a registered electrician (SELECT [ECA of Scotland] or NICIEC) to sign off works, or someone that meets these standards

The system up here has home reports still in place and solicitors pick up on things as the questionnaire for the seller asks them if they have had any work done. If they falsify their answers it may cause problems re breach of contract

I think there should be;
PIR's for landlords as mandatory
PIR's for house sales
a register of compotent electricians
a requirement for landlords to use a compotent person
the insurance industry needs to pick up their end

discuss...

 

[Paul.M]

Paul, you raise some good points and most I agree with except for the above.
What if someone's doing work to become a member of the scheme in the first place and therefore at the time of buying they have no scheme membership?

Maybe it could allow for people with proof of different qualifications such as 17th and 2391 or just 2330...

Otherwise there'd be a catch 22 situation: Can't buy materials to do job because not in part p scheme, but can't join scheme as can't buy materials for the job.

Just a thought

I should have worded that better and thank you for correcting me. Yes it should only be possible to buy installation materials with proof that you are an electrician but this pushes us down the road of a national register, this is what I'm asking.

Maybe through jib (which is cheap reg fees) a proper more defined grading that also proves safety with the esc and a membership number. Will this make our industry better or more complex?

 

[baldelectrician]

there is a register of electricians via the jib /sjib. How many of us check or are checked using this?

Being an electrician does not make you competent. I have seen a fair amount of work (from younger sparks in particular) that leave a lot to be desired
Was at one 3 weeks ago where an 'electrician' carried out remedial works following a PIR we failed. The guy had on site 2 EI141 smoke detectors (not required for PIR but required for letting in Scotland), but fitted a different make with no base / patress
He also had a split 17th edition consumer unit, and fitted one with NO RCD ! (got it off back of lorry and fitted it without question despite me failing PIR for lack of RCD or supp bonding to bathroom)
and he had to do a main bond

The job was that poor that my apprentice (working with me 13 months - starting college in Aug) was listing all this guys defects.
He also pointed out that his --- would be kicked if he left work that bad

It makes things better for the rest of us as it gives us more word of mouth work

 

[thekingiam]

... So yes I think MOTs are the model to aspire to, but obviously buildings may be harder to 'police' because you can't stop them while they're driving down the road.

i would think it would be easier no pir no house insurance full stop, electric meter reader or even a postman asks to see cert if no then so and so..

 

[thekingiam]

it seems to me the government response to unsafe dwelings is to try to police qualified electricians instead of trying to police or change the public atitude towards domestic electrics and punish the wrong doers out there.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I think the subject of DIY sheds flogging Gas Fitting stuff to Joe Public was addressed a while ago.

The reply from the sheds was something like: "Have you any idea how big the DIY market is? Have you any idea what our profits are from selling this stuff? Have you any idea how much tax we pay into your coffers? Now go away & think again!!"

And that, as they say, was the end of that!!