EICR check failed

[jon evans]

Hi Guys, Just had an EICR test and was told it will fail , but not too bad (a couple of C2s) but needs doing. Waiting for the failure cert. to show me the total work needed, and should be here tomorrow. Is there a kind soul out there who can assist me [a retired old electrician who's quite confused by all this new stuff] in fixing it ? I'm in the NW6 area in London. I can pay cash and help with stripping cables etc and supply tea or coffee and the cheese and pickle sandwiches as and when required. Please call me !

 

[Vortigern]

Hang on a minute, has this thread been cuckolded!

 

[freddo]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

 

[goasis]

Obviously never heard of the live&neutral to cpc IR test......

 

[ayubabroad]

Well the supply earth is in very poor condition and definitely a C2 fault, but there is something a bit odd about it: That looks like a fairly new cutout (grey thing below your meter) but the earth connection to the supply cable does not look like something the DNO (power supply company, I'm guessing UK Power Networks for your location) would do or consider acceptable.

Unless you have electrical stuff in the bathroom and it is not properly bonded (earth wires across pipes, etc), I would dispute a C2 for no RCD protection, but for your own safety / peace of mind having RCD protection is a good thing.

Not commented on is the dangling state of the tails (black & red cables from meter to your fuse box = CU), those should be supported / clipped to the wall!

Also the test result correctly notices the hob is a C-curve 32A MCB, but the Zs limit shown is for B-curve (minor, but makes poor earth even more important to fix).

Other might notice other stuff in the EICR, but certainly you have to get the earthing sorted out ASAP.

What about the CCU, does that really need replacing?

 

[timhoward]

What about the CCU, does that really need replacing?

"need" is too strong a word. To make it safe, no. But it would be advisable as the additional protection is well worth having.
Had it not been for the earthing situation I would suggest many inspectors would have declared that installation to be satisfactory, assuming nothing else was missed. Not up to latest regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe.
But whatever you do with the CU, please get the earthing sorted out asap. Right now in some fault conditions there is no guarantee the supply will turn off.

 

[ayubabroad]

"need" is too strong a word. To make it safe, no. But it would be advisable as the additional protection is well worth having.
Had it not been for the earthing situation I would suggest many inspectors would have declared that installation to be satisfactory, assuming nothing else was missed. Not up to latest regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe.
But whatever you do with the CU, please get the earthing sorted out asap. Right now in some fault conditions there is no guarantee the supply will turn off.

Thank you all for your comments they were very informative.

 

[Teddy Lop]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

I've seen a few property's in London area where the earth on the rotten old lead sheaf supply cable is failing, according to UKPN "we're not obliged to give you an earth go away" and they seem to think an underground cable with questionable earthing on the sheaf is okay. Like for example the recent notable case of sticking flamible stuff to high rise buildings It's a case of waiting for people to die then everyone who's duty it was to know and be responsible acts all surprised.

Only option in the meantime is to TT it, so yes full RCD protected new consumer unit would be highly advisable.

 

[hasel5]

First thing that should be done is get the DNO out to sort out the The High ZE then go from there at least that should make the disconnection times acceptable for the install

 

[nicebutdim]

I've seen a few property's in London area where the earth on the rotten old lead sheaf supply cable is failing, according to UKPN "we're not obliged to give you an earth go away" and they seem to think an underground cable with questionable earthing on the sheaf is okay. Like for example the recent notable case of sticking flamible stuff to high rise buildings It's a case of waiting for people to die then everyone who's duty it was to know and be responsible acts all surprised.

Only option in the meantime is to TT it, so yes full RCD protected new consumer unit would be highly advisable.

Aren't they required to maintain an earth where it has been provided?

 

[Dartlec]

Aren't they required to maintain an earth where it has been provided?

They are (though not sure who would force them) - and since they have no records as to whether one was originally provided or not they could I guess claim that any TN-S clamp was not done by them. It is after all very common to see the bonding clamps used for them which is usually a DIY 'upgrade' (Though apparently they were approved for a period in the 70s)

Having said that, in the Kent/London border areas I work, they've always managed to provide PME when asked - even on overhead lines.

 

[Teddy Lop]

They are (though not sure who would force them) - and since they have no records as to whether one was originally provided or not they could I guess claim that any TN-S clamp was not done by them. It is after all very common to see the bonding clamps used for them which is usually a DIY 'upgrade' (Though apparently they were approved for a period in the 70s)

Having said that, in the Kent/London border areas I work, they've always managed to provide PME when asked - even on overhead lines.

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

 

[UNG]

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

Had it a few times, I usually do a Ze on the cable sheath if it comes back as a viable earth then that is what I base my argument on for the DNO having provided an earth in the past or I ask them if it is normal for them to place uninsulated extraneous metalwork in a consumers premises

 

[pc1966]

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

I guess if there is evidence of the old wire remaining that would be sufficient proof?

 

[pc1966]

But equally, if it is a metallic sheathed cable then it ought to be properly earthed anyway so any poor sod who can contact it in the event of a cable fault is not fried.

 

[ayubabroad]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

DNO ?