EICR Classification Code for downlights that are not fire rated

[Dave_]

Hi Gents

Just wanted opinions on the above

I know there are various factors that could sway opinion...

Customers that have a large house with downlights throughout are not too pleased when you give them a four figure quote to rip out the lot......

Cheers

Dave

 

[Octopus]

Remind me why they need to be fire rated.......

 

[Deleted member 9648]

You may just have dropped yourself in it here.....check the actual requirements before scaring clients.

 

[Dave_]

I haven't failed an installation on this.... just want opinions/ views thats all..

 

[Andy78]

I haven't failed an installation on this.... just want opinions/ views thats all..

What are your opinions/views on it ?

 

[scootknew]

whats the reg number to luminares surrounded by insulation or no insualtion

 

[Welchyboy1]

You wasn't the kind chap who told one of my customers all the downlighters i had fitted in her bungalow bathroom were 'illegal' and were about to catch fire at any moment and had to be replaced with fire rated ones immediately?

thanks for that!

 

[scootknew]

hhaha! fit leds and nothing to worry about about **** going up in flames

 

[Octopus]

I haven't failed an installation on this.... just want opinions/ views thats all..

So why did you give them a 4 figure quote then?

 

[slingshot2000]

hhaha! fit leds and nothing to worry about about **** going up in flames

It is not the down-lights going up in flames that is the problem. The problem is the 75mm holes, you have cut in a half-hour rated plasterboard ceiling, allowing the fire to spread.

 

[davesparks]

hhaha! fit leds and nothing to worry about about **** going up in flames

The type of downright is irrelevant, it is the hole in the fire-barrier (aka ceiling) which needs sealing.

 

[davesparks]

Hi Gents

Just wanted opinions on the above

I know there are various factors that could sway opinion...

Customers that have a large house with downlights throughout are not too pleased when you give them a four figure quote to rip out the lot......

Cheers

Dave

If the ceiling is a fire barrier then it will fall under section 527 which requires that the fire barrier not be compromised by the electrical installation.
I would give a C3 code as it is not presenting an electrical danger but is a recommendation of an improvement for safety.

 

[Andy78]

Hi Gents

Just wanted opinions on the above

I know there are various factors that could sway opinion...

Customers that have a large house with downlights throughout are not too pleased when you give them a four figure quote to rip out the lot......

Cheers

Dave

If the ceiling is a fire barrier then it will fall under section 527 which requires that the fire barrier not be compromised by the electrical installation.
I would give a C3 code as it is not presenting an electrical danger but is a recommendation of an improvement for safety.

Spot on. Exactly my view too.

 

[telectrix]

and do we also seal up the stairwell to stop fire from spreading upstairs? bunk beds in the kitchen.

 

[Octopus]

If the ceiling is a fire barrier then it will fall under section 527 which requires that the fire barrier not be compromised by the electrical installation.
I would give a C3 code as it is not presenting an electrical danger but is a recommendation of an improvement for safety.

To a separate property?

 

[sparksburnout]

and do we also seal up the stairwell to stop fire from spreading upstairs? bunk beds in the kitchen.

Tel your a genius, and the best guy on here without a doubt. I had exactly the same comment from a BCO the other day. Fire rated ruddy nonsense most of this, when you have the biggest Flu you could ever imagine in the shape of the stairway.
If someone has told a customer they have to have them all ripped out he should put on a mask and change his name to Turpin, and not Betty.

 

[telectrix]

in an average single family house, the only requirement for fire rated downlights is in the ceiling of an integral garage.

 

[davesparks]

To a separate property?

Any fire barrier, so it could be the barrier to an upstairs flat, or the ceiling of a built in garage, or the ceiling below a loft room where BC have required that fire door etc be fitted to separate that loft room, or even if the downright is installed in the pink fire line plasterboard boxing in an RSJ.
Plus of course the normal ceiling where it give 30minute protection to the void containing the floor joists.

 

[davesparks]

and do we also seal up the stairwell to stop fire from spreading upstairs? bunk beds in the kitchen.

No, there is no fire barrier between downstairs and upstairs. There is a 30min fire barrier protecting the joists supporting the upstairs floor.

 

[Octopus]

Any fire barrier, so it could be the barrier to an upstairs flat, or the ceiling of a built in garage, or the ceiling below a loft room where BC have required that fire door etc be fitted to separate that loft room, or even if the downright is installed in the pink fire line plasterboard boxing in an RSJ.
Plus of course the normal ceiling where it give 30minute protection to the void containing the floor joists.

How many people fit downlights in their garages?

 

[sparksburnout]

Any fire barrier, so it could be the barrier to an upstairs flat, or the ceiling of a built in garage, or the ceiling below a loft room where BC have required that fire door etc be fitted to separate that loft room, or even if the downright is installed in the pink fire line plasterboard boxing in an RSJ.
Plus of course the normal ceiling where it give 30minute protection to the void containing the floor joists.

That's just downlight daft.

 

[telectrix]

aren't RSJs non-combustible steel since wooden ones are now outlawed under amd.3?

 

[sparksburnout]

aren't RSJs non-combustible steel since wooden ones are now outlawed under amd.3?

Only if they have fire retarding paint on them apparently. I think all this stuff must be to make it easier to identify the corpses afterwards.

 

[sparksburnout]

Hi Gents

Just wanted opinions on the above

I know there are various factors that could sway opinion...

Customers that have a large house with downlights throughout are not too pleased when you give them a four figure quote to rip out the lot......

Cheers

Dave

Whats the horse called?

 

[davesparks]

aren't RSJs non-combustible steel since wooden ones are now outlawed under amd.3?

Nope, they soften and twist/buckle when subjected to fire. English oak structural beams are actually far better in a fire than RSJs.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

I now understand why the buildings in 911 were weakened by fire to the point of collapse .

Full of plastic consumer units and non fire rated down lights . :ninja:

 

[telectrix]

I now understand why the buildings in 911 were weakened by fire to the point of collapse .

Full of plastic consumer units and non fire rated down lights . :ninja:

and steel rsj's.

 

[ipf]

I now understand why the buildings in 911 were weakened by fire to the point of collapse .

Full of plastic consumer units and non fire rated down lights . :ninja:

If they had them in 911 they must have had 'em in 1666.
A few weakened in then too......did clean things up after the 'great plague', though.

 

[Welchyboy1]

hhaha! fit leds and nothing to worry about about **** going up in flames

there were LED

 

[Welchyboy1]

It is not the down-lights going up in flames that is the problem. The problem is the 75mm holes, you have cut in a half-hour rated plasterboard ceiling, allowing the fire to spread.

On a side note, never seen a fire rated ceiling speaker, have seen many of those installed lately, must be at least a 200mm hole in the plasterboard

are the audio/visual guys fitting speaker sized fire hoods nowadays?

 

[DPG]

On a side note, never seen a fire rated ceiling speaker, have seen many of those installed lately, must be at least a 200mm hole in the plasterboard

are the audio/visual guys fitting speaker sized fire hoods nowadays?

Yes they are. Daz

 

[Midwest]

My bedroom door, when left open, provides an even bigger break in the fire resistant wall it's installed in.

However I don't understand anyone fitting non fire rated downlight nowadays, when even the most expensive ones are a few pounds. I wouldn't fit the open can tuppeny happeny tack sold by DIY stores. You're right about the speakers and what about ceiling extractor fans, you can get intumescent collars for them

OP mentioned a large dwelling house; Approved document B defines such as a residential accommodation occupied.... b) by not more than 6 people, living together as a single household. Not suggesting he should rip out existing luminaires, just as a discussion point for the original installation.

 

[DPG]

Hoods are available for speakers and should be fitted if required, just the same as down lighters. Daz