EICR coding twin and earth tails/riser

[Flanders]

What difference does the edition it was designed to have?

Ok my reasoning is this.

If the electrical installation was installed after a regulation that was brought in as an improvement to safety, that regulation was not adhered to and I feel the regulation does prevent a potential danger then I would code 2 it. So my coding is based more to do with a new regulation not be adhered to as opossed to a specific regulation.

 

[DPG]

Ok my reasoning is this.

If the electrical installation was installed after a regulation that was brought in as an improvement to safety, that regulation was not adhered to and I feel the regulation does prevent a potential danger then I would code 2 it. So my coding is based more to do with a new regulation not be adhered to as opossed to a specific regulation.

But how would you know when each part of an installation was installed?

 

[Flanders]

But how would you know when each part of an installation was installed?

You ask or look at this installation certificate. If you do not have that information then I agree you have to use you own judgment .

 

[Ian1981]

The level of danger is still present regardless of what edition it was installed to.
Fused neutrals where once a thing, they would certainly warrant a C2 code regardless of what edition it was installed to.
The question is do the cables present a potential danger with how they are installed or do they mearly require improvement only?
16th edition installed, 17th edition installed, makes absolutely zero difference, they are still buried directly in a wall.

 

[Zerax]

The issue though is that "level of danger" is subjective... it cannot be accurately defined. You could argue that stepping outside of your front door presents a level of danger (being run-over, meeting a mass murderer etc.) that is unacceptable, so you shouldn't do/legislate against doing it. Or you could argue that staying indoors is more dangerous as we are told that most accidents happen at home...

Also the level of what is deemed to be "dangerous" decreases year on year... e.g. driving without a seatbelt on was perfectly acceptable 30 years ago... now it's been made illegal.

As has already been said... under the current regime, whether you code as a C2 or C3 is often a matter of the personal opinion of the inspector given his attitude to risk, understanding of the regulations and his age.

 

[Flanders]

The level of danger is still present regardless of what edition it was installed to.
Fused neutrals where once a thing, they would certainly warrant a C2 code regardless of what edition it was installed to.
The question is do the cables present a potential danger with how they are installed or do they mearly require improvement only?
16th edition installed, 17th edition installed, makes absolutely zero difference, they are still buried directly in a wall.

Yes I agree with this and yes the same danger applies. So really if my opinion is that an observation is a code 2 then I should code 2 it regardless of its age, My thought process was using the the seat belt analogy , you can drive a car without seat belts if was built before a certain date a believe .My understanding is you can not use the regulations retrospectively, so how can give an unsatisfactory report to an installation that was installed before the regulation came out.

 

[Ian1981]

Yes I agree with this and yes the same danger applies. So really if my opinion is that an observation is a code 2 then I should code 2 it regardless of its age, My thought process was using the the seat belt analogy , you can drive a car without seat belts if was built before a certain date a believe .My understanding is you can not use the regulations retrospectively, so how can give an unsatisfactory report to an installation that was installed before the regulation came out.

Because safety continuously evolves along with our knowledge and learning from not implementing something, an example would be premature collapse of cables having had firefighters die because of it, that regulation is very much applied retrospectively in my inspections.
Fused neutrals as my example before would never be given a C3 regardless of when it once complied.
However C2 codes for things like IP ratings in consumer units not being adhered to is a C2 , whatever edition really has no bearing on some of the things picked up on.

 

[DPG]

Yes I agree with this and yes the same danger applies. So really if my opinion is that an observation is a code 2 then I should code 2 it regardless of its age, My thought process was using the the seat belt analogy , you can drive a car without seat belts if was built before a certain date a believe .My understanding is you can not use the regulations retrospectively, so how can give an unsatisfactory report to an installation that was installed before the regulation came out.

Because something like a fused neutral is well understood to be unacceptable now, regardless of when it was installed.

 

[Flanders]

Because safety continuously evolves along with our knowledge and learning from not implementing something, an example would be premature collapse of cables having had firefighters die because of it, that regulation is very much applied retrospectively in my inspections.
Fused neutrals as my example before would never be given a C3 regardless of when it once complied.
However C2 codes for things like IP ratings in consumer units not being adhered to is a C2 , whatever edition really has no bearing on some of the things picked up on.

You make a good point and thanks this is good conversation, and so just to confirm an installation that was installed correct at the time of the 16th addition , could now be given an unsatisfactory report due to a code 2 such as cable not supported from premature collapse....

 

[DPG]

You make a good point and thanks this is good conversation, and so just to confirm an installation that was installed correct at the time of the 16th addition , could now be given an unsatisfactory report due to a code 2 such as cable not supported from premature collapse....

Another example is an outside socket with no RCD protection. Wouldn't have been uncommon years ago.

 

[Pete999]

I guess you can't know the cable routes and depth, but 522.6.202 only applies if they're buried less than 50mm from the surface doesn't it? The 3m rule only applies to tails from DNO equipment I think (434.2.1), which your switched fused spur isn't.

Somehow I can't anyone connecting 16mm2 into a switched fuse spur, can you?

 

[partplonker]

Somehow I can't anyone connecting 16mm2 into a switched fuse spur, can you?

I used OP's wording, I'm sure they meant fused isolator ?

 

[UKPN]

if there is a perceived danger of nails or screws being stuck in the walls and hence into the cable, it's a C2 in my book.

Perceived danger isnt potential danger
Regards, UKPN

 

[telectrix]

Perceived danger isnt potential danger
Regards, UKPN

it can be. you percieve that someone could nail a cable in a wall, but it's not an immediate danger until if and when that someone decides to bang a nail in. that is a potential danger.
potentially, he/she could hit or miss the cable.

 

[GBDamo]

Where do you stop with this?

I'm all for making things safer where practicable but the return has to outweigh the cost.

The hazard of banging a nail in a cable hasn't changed, the liklihood hasn't changed and the consequence hasn't changed.

If cables less than 50mm in a wall is a C2 then the only option is to agree it as a limitation.

"No invasive procedures, no lifting floor boards and no loft access"

LIM the lot. ?