EICR report - extent of testing

[Hilldog]

im recently qualified and have now been taken by a company as a spark. Part of my job now sometimes involves conducting eicr reports in domestic properties/hmo. I was wondering how much of the installation people test in a 'real life situation'. I know in college it's drummed into you to go through all of the tests (crippler). I have been pretty much doing all these tests so far, however, talking to other sparks they seem to do it very differently. Most seem to be just content with ze, ring continuity, zs and trip times.

Also as it's not a fault finding exercise rather detailing if the installation has deteriorated is it ok to start reducing the scope of testing once the results are constantly coming back as satisfactory. The reason I ask is because I don't want to be Taking apart every light and socket in the people's homes unnecessarily. Someone said it's ok to just test 25% of the installation if no problems arise. Does this sound acceptable?

 

[westward10]

The testing of circuits should be 100% unless the client requests different. Sample inspection of accessories can be limited if initial inspections prove to be satisfactory. The visual inspection is always the most important part but the physical testing of circuits must never be watered down.

 

[The Ghost]

Depends on what is agreed with the person ordering the work. Also lims agreed with the client. As for dismantling very little is to be done the less the better. If you have previous reports then yes sampling is ok if you do not and there are no records sampling becomes less possible. If you start on sampling 20% light switches or testing and find really poor results then further investigation will be required. Very much driven by the sample rate pass rate if you like.

 

[Des 56]

You should be removing for inspection the percentage of items agreed and stated on the eicr
If a property has 10 light switches,perhaps take one or two off down and one or two off the up
Take a Zs at the furthest point and also make use of a wander lead for R2s
If it has 2 rings,you can test the continuity at a socket you remove,rather like killing 2 birds with one stone
If the removed items shows the need for concern,then increase the percentage being removed,if it looks fine, your companies agreement is fulfilled and you have not ripped the place to shreds

Get a feel for what you consider is safe and a good standard and let that be your guide

 

[Ian1981]

Eicr in domestic it's more realistic to be able to test all circuits.
Commercial installations not so much

 

[westward10]

Eicr in domestic it's more realistic to be able to test all circuits.
Commercial installations not so much

Why is that then.

 

[Ian1981]

Why is that then.

Too many limitations.
Can't turn certain circuits off for operation purposes.
Most of the time can't do a ze test.
Fire alarm circuit can't be turned off etc

 

[westward10]

Too many limitations.
Can't turn certain circuits off for operation purposes.
Most of the time can't do a ze test.
Fire alarm circuit can't be turned off etc

Planning is the key to commercial and a lot of planning with industrial. I have worked on large sites for two or three months and you can spend a couple of weeks skirting essential circuits and getting a lay of the land plotting and planning. You can can start several boards at once and in some cases taking weeks to finish it going back and forth as downtime /planning permits. Fire alarms, turn them off anytime you want.

 

[Ian1981]

Planning is the key to commercial and a lot of planning with industrial. I have worked on large sites for two or three months and you can spend a couple of weeks skirting essential circuits and getting a lay of the land plotting and planning. You can can start several boards at once and in some cases taking weeks to finish it going back and forth as downtime /planning permits. Fire alarms, turn them off anytime you want.

Yeah but when you've not got weeks to do that sort of thing your kinda limited
Hence client limitations or operational limitations
Never have I had weeks to test a commercial office.
Try a week at the most
Can't test circuits when the client won't shut the computers down etc
As for fire alarms certain clients health and safety policies won't allow the power to be disconnected in any circumstances

 

[westward10]

I have never done a commercial site where it is not possible to test computer power. The sites I talk of are large with up to a thousand circuits but even small sites which can encompass a couple of days work it is never impossible. Prior discussion is essential as to what the task encompasses with you being totally flexible as to when it can be done even if it is four in the morning.

 

[Ian1981]

I have never done a commercial site where it is not possible to test computer power. The sites I talk of are large with up to a thousand circuits but even small sites which can encompass a couple of days work it is never impossible. Prior discussion is essential as to what the task encompasses with you being totally flexible as to when it can be done even if it is four in the morning.[/QUOTE
We are testing in different words Westwood as basically I've got the hrs of 8-4 a day

 

[Ian1981]

Agreed limitations usually covers it

 

[westward10]

Limitations are a cop out, if your hours are cast in stone then domestic can be the only option because commercial/ industrial requires working flexibility to carry out the task correctly.

 

[Ian1981]

Limitations are a cop out, if your hours are cast in stone then domestic can be the only option because commercial/ industrial requires working flexibility to carry out the task correctly.

Limitations are acceptable and are sometimes the most realistic options for a small business who won't allow personal into their property at bleeding 3 in the morning so they can test a fire alarm circuit.

 

[westward10]

Why can't you turn off a fire alarm circuit you can do it any time.

 

[Ian1981]

Why can't you turn off a fire alarm circuit you can do it any time.

I've already mentioned the reason in an earlier post.
also the hassle of contacting fire department as some alarms ring though to them
If the client won't allow down time for certain circuits then it's a limitation on the certificate.
Do you think they want to pay for an electrician to come out after hours??
The eicr becomes less valuable shall we say if limitations are imposed but nethertheless they are acceptable and are permitted

 

[westward10]

I test the fire alarm supply any time night or day makes no difference if it is monitored or not. I am sensing Reports of Limitations here.

 

[Ian1981]

I test the fire alarm supply any time night or day makes no difference if it is monitored or not. I am sensing Reports of Limitations here.

Must be a Jedi mind trick and your sensing the force!
Who knows?

 

[Ian1981]

Do you also hire out at a cost to the client a cherry picker or scaffolding to test all the high bay lighting as well in workshops,warehouses etc??

 

[Hilldog]

Thanks for all the replies. Plenty for me to go at. Much appreciated!!

 

[westward10]

Do you also hire out at a cost to the client a cherry picker or scaffolding to test all the high bay lighting as well in workshops,warehouses etc??

The client is given the choice to include the fee for access equipment if no then no go. But I believe you digress from the testing of computer circuits in commercial premises. What I believe happens in most cases is a discussion takes place along the lines of, Don't worry we won't interfere with your work because any IT/computer circuits we won't test and record a Limitation how does that sound. Oh and any unidentified circuits we leave as well so you won't actually know we were here.
This is how it goes there is no discussion of how the computer circuits are going to be tested because it is not even considered.

 

[Ian1981]

The client is given the choice to include the fee for access equipment if no then no go. But I believe you digress from the testing of computer circuits in commercial premises. What I believe happens in most cases is a discussion takes place along the lines of, Don't worry we won't interfere with your work because any IT/computer circuits we won't test and record a Limitation how does that sound. Oh and any unidentified circuits we leave as well so you won't actually know we were here.
This is how it goes there is no discussion of how the computer circuits are going to be tested because it is not even considered.

That's a very narrow view you have there.
Whilst I believe that this sort of thing can happen and it makes people's life easier to simply record a limitation, the other side is that the clients only see a down time in productivity of their staffs work and as such are within their right to refuse that certain circuits are left on and uninterrupted.
You can't force someone to turn off equipment be it computers/ servers, security systems.
I've tested in a medical practice where fridges housing medical drugs where at the upmost not to be turned off.
To say you can 100% test all circuits in every installation you test commercial domestic and industrial is unrealistic in my view and that won't change.
Op is talking about domestic which is more possible.

And please don't question my integrity .
You don't know me so keep your opinions on that to yourself!

 

[Deleted account]

I realy don't like limitations on eicr's, but I recall one EICR I did in a small recording studio where I was not to interfere with a circuit that was operating recording equipment.
I was told in no unsertain terms not to turn that circuit off as the cost implications where severe. This made it dificult for the rest of the EICR as the circuits where not clearly identified.
I got the client to identify the circuits breaker I couldnt turn off. He was unable to identify it.

Basically it meant I couldn't take the front cover of one of the DB's and some circuits where not fully tested if at all.

The job took me half a day instead of a full day as only half the tests and inspections where carried out.

I nearly marked this EICR as unsatisfactory due to incomplete testing under the heading FI further investigation, but I didn't.

What I did was made it absolutely clear what had not been tested.

If I had known before arrival I would have done the job on a weekend or late evening.

This job was a favour for someone as I really don't like doing eicr's.
I normally over price them in the hope they won't say yes.

 

[Octopus]

im recently qualified and have now been taken by a company as a spark. Part of my job now sometimes involves conducting eicr reports in domestic properties/hmo. I was wondering how much of the installation people test in a 'real life situation'. QUOTE]

Well, if your job is to conduct the EICR's best you know what the customer has been promised before you go to site.

If its a previously tested site and you have access to the old EICR then the scope of works may be different to an untested site. If the property is 1950's or 2010 the scope may well be different.

Have fun.

 

[Octopus]

im recently qualified and have now been taken by a company as a spark. Part of my job now sometimes involves conducting eicr reports in domestic properties/hmo. I was wondering how much of the installation people test in a 'real life situation'.

Well, if your job is to conduct the EICR's best you know what the customer has been promised before you go to site.

If its a previously tested site and you have access to the old EICR then the scope of works may be different to an untested site. If the property is 1950's or 2010 the scope may well be different.

Have fun.

(re-posted to make it clearer!)