ELECSA Certification Scheme Elecsa Part P Scheme - Testing Queries

[ray-bentos]

Hi
Got a few questions regarding my upcoming (First!) assessment with Elecsa Part P scheme after finally deciding to go it on my own...
Hope I'm in the right forum here and if not someone could move for me, but it seems both CPS related and inspection & testing related.
I have been told I only need one notifiable job which I have decided is going to be a consumer unit change at my mums house. The consumer unit change needed doing anyway and its a struggle to make LABC notifiable jobs financially viable before registration. Its familiar surroundings for my first assessment and thought it would be better than trying to go 'back' to a customers install and get assessed.
Firstly will the fact that it is my mums house and I will have the keys (she will be at work) going to make the assessor think any less of me?
There are a number of sockets in awkward places on the ring (IE: behind fitted furniture and the fridge) which although I will make sure to test before I write my EIC, will be awkward to get to once I have put everything back. Also there is an outside lighting circuit feeding 2 PIR security lights. These will be difficult to test on an assessment as would require ladders. What is the likelihood of having to test either of these as my assessment piece?
I'm a bit stuck on the ladders front at the moment as only have a large estate car and although can get some dropped off for job (which actually requires a light moving too) would look a bit micky mouse in front of an assessor. I would be getting either a roof rack or a better vehicle once up and running but its an expense could do without at first.
I have a lot of potential work lined up that need this registration for (my partner is a plumber and has an endless supply of electric shower installs) so really need to impress this assessor!
Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[telectrix]

do the CU. book your assessment date. get ladders dropped off a couple of days before. move outside light. leave ladders on site just in case. a lot of assessment jobs are done for relations. this should have no effect on the assessment. just be upfront with the assessor. he wants to pass you.

 

[ray-bentos]

do the CU. book your assessment date. get ladders dropped off a couple of days before. move outside light. leave ladders on site just in case. a lot of assessment jobs are done for relations. this should have no effect on the assessment. just be upfront with the assessor. he wants to pass you.

Thats all good....

I've already booked the assessment, they orginally offered me 6th March which I decided was too far in the future got a lot of work lined up I need this for. Luckily ELECSA had a cancellation for 29th Jan. Only just realised how much Ive got to do before then! Paperwork pretty much all in order, just need to change the CU. Thinking will be doing it on Wednesday so hopefully all goes well.

Will he be happy with the bonding to water running around the building in conduit? No other neat way to do it and it needs upgrading. Going to run the external lighting cable in conduit (its just bare T&E clipped to the wall at the minute) so thought could extend a little and run bonding through too. Luckily gas meter is right next to CU.

 

[guest119]

ELECSA had a cancellation for 29th Jan.

And hopefully many more!

Boydy

 

[ray-bentos]

ELECSA had a cancellation for 29th Jan.
And hopefully many more!
Boydy

What do you mean by that?

 

[m top]

You should be prepared to answer any questions and perform any tests they ask you,they are practical and helpfull however they will not do it for you,if you don't have a ladder on site he may ask you testing procedure for your pir light insulation resistance ect,if your competent to do your job it's a breeze mate don't panic!!

 

[SJD]

My experience of ELECSA assessments is you won't be asked to test too much.

My first assessment was in my own house (quite common, I gather) for a CU change and a new garage socket circuit - testing was limited to the oven circuit. My second was in a nearby neighbours house, also a CU change and a few other minor things, and again testing was limited to the oven circuit.

I'd be surprised if you had to go up ladders or in a loft, or any awkward places - unless that was all that was available for the job.

 

[Kate]

Its common for first assessment jobs to be your own house or a relatives. Although you dont need to explain who the customer is.

Im sure they will appreciate that you need to work to earn money to buy the equipment you need.

I spent my first two years working out of a fiesta ST. That wouldnt even allow roof bars so no ladders.

As long as you do your job competently and arent an --- to customers they wont care what vehicle you have or think you are 'mickey mouse'

They will expect you to have previously tested the work, so as long as you can point out where 'hidden' outlets are you shouldnt be expected to pull appliances out.

They are not there to catch you out. They are helpful, if you are unsure of an answer you can look in any of the books.

Earth bond around outside is fine. Ive had to do this on many occasions.

Try and relax and dont fret. The first one is always scary

 

[southsea1201]

My experience of ELECSA is most of the work will done in your home when you meet. You will get asked a number of questions. For instance what is the maximum Ze of TNS and TNCS. Other more technical questions may follow and you have to demonstrate that you can find the answers in the OSG, GN3 or BGB.
On site I did not take any ladders around and I think it extremely doubtful you will climb ladders. I was asked to remove and lock off the CU and demonstrate a Ze test (remembering to remove bonding from the MET). I was then asked how I would test a RF circuit, in theory only. Finally I was asked to test (Zs) at some sockets.
The assessor is very interested in construction. My CU was in a cellar. I had installed emergency lighting next to the CU so we had light when switched off, he really liked that. He also liked the fact that my cables were all in trunking before they entered the main fabric of the building.

They are generally nice guys from what I hear from others, and was certainly the case with me. I got pulled for non compliance on my MF tester but argued that I have a good quality checkbox and that the 2 readings were the same. He gave me 30 days to get the checkbox calibrated and it must be done every 3 years.

It did feel daunting before the meeting but the guy was very friendly and is not trying to trip you up. don't worry if you don't have the answer...just familiarise yourself with the layout of your textbooks so that you know where to look for any specific question. For instance you maybe asked a question on diversity...you must know where to look.

 

[ray-bentos]

Brilliant, thanks for everyone's help, I was a little bit worried but I'm relaxing a little now!

I guess I just thought that the 6th March was ages to prepare but then got my cancellation which is only just over a week away and realised I hadn't even done the job yet!

Luckily I seem to work best under pressure, focuses me!

Any other gems of wisdom please feel free!

 

[Kate]

The locking off kit is a good point. Every assessment ive been asked safe isolation procedure and they will want to see a locking off kit.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

The locking off kit is a good point. Every assessment ive been asked safe isolation procedure and they will want to see a locking off kit.

Saves lives !

i was caught out once......

 

[Kate]

When I was an apprentice the higher up apprentices found it a giggle to turn on isolated circuits.

 

[BES]

I've been with Elecsa for 3 yr, although not trading at present due to big op on by back last summer now held together with £25000 worth of titanium.
Had 3 assesments the guy puts you at your ease and as long as you have everything they require in place and you know your stuff its no problem in fact I enjoy it .
Questions on max Ze, how to test rfc and what results to expect ,RCD test and what results, Zs, safe isolation etc not just how to but why and building regs as well ventilation and drilling joists etc. Done worry if you need to refer to books to find info as long as you can show him where to find it.
Good luck.

 

[graeme210375]

My first Elecsa assessment was a cu change at my brothers flat. Because the flat was a 20min drive away, we were a bit rushed.
The cu was located in a storage cupboard only accessible from the outside.
It was hoonin it down with rain so he stuck his head through the door and took a glance at it. He didn't even want me to remove the cover
We went inside and I did a zs reading from the kitchen ring and he asked me to check the continuity of another ring from a socket in the lounge, then an RCD test from that socket, a couple of questions about disconnection times. THAT WAS IT!
5 mins max!
He tested me on the building regs on the return journey.
Just know your building regs, make sure the funds have cleared into their account and you'll be fine.

 

[Geoffsd]

make sure the funds have cleared into their account and you'll be fine.

If they haven't you won't need to worry about the questions.

 

[ray-bentos]

Just been to assess the job this evening ahead of tomorrows job, noticed what could be a problem.

The shower is an 9.5KW on 6mm T&E. The cable goes up from the CU to the ceiling clipped direct to wall, perhaps 2m within the void between down & upstairs (so would assume clipped direct in there, no thermal insulation to worry about) upon where it goes up through an airing cupboard (again, clipped direct) to the switch in loft (no insulation covering) and back down again to the shower (as far as I can tell all clipped direct). Its currently on a 32amp MCB but I plan to up this with new CU. If it was an install I had done myself I would have changed for 10mm however after some discussion with my customer (MUM!) upgrading the cable is out of the question (IE: it worked fine before....)

According to OSG 6mm clipped direct is good for 47amp, and as its only a short run (I estimate maximum 12m) volt drop is only 3.2V so well within value. I haven't used a clamp meter to confirm exactly what current is being drawn (my clamp meter is only cheap so not the most accurate) however if we work on worst case scenario (9500/230=41.3) can I use a 45amp MCB, should provide protection against short circuit (bearing in mind 6mm REF method C) within the capabilities of the cable, and note on some sort of design sheet my calculations to show I'm not just trying to wing it?

 

[ray-bentos]

Yeah the funds cleared don't worry!
Its just my first time thats all, probably getting all worried about nothing!
Safe isolation is always number 1, got a lock off kit so all good. I don't have a lockoff tag for my kit though, is that really a requirement for domestic work?
And what about the health & safety policies and risk assessments for a sole trader? Everything seems geared towards employers so not sure if thats required as I don't employ anyone (yet...)

 

[Kate]

Im sole trader and I have to have them. Just find some generic ones from internet and tailor them to u. No sign for lock off should be ok for domestic

 

[ray-bentos]

what you think to the 6mm issue?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if you mean the main earthing then use the adiabatic to prove its good for time/current...

 

[ray-bentos]

if you mean the main earthing then use the adiabatic to prove its good for time/current...

No the 6mm cable feeding 9.5kw shower, albeit REF method C

 

[Richard Burns]

Ib<In<Iz

Ib is 41.3A
In is 45A
Iz is 47A

Sorted.

 

[ray-bentos]

This brings another problem to the fray which is my chosen CU only has 40 or 50amp MCBs. I know there is no requirement to provide overload protection for fixed loads but then my breaker is lower than my design current at 40amp and 50amp is above the 47amp allowed by the cable?

Alternative is to use an MK Sentry CU which has the 45amp breaker option

 

[SJD]

The 9.5kW shower is perhaps only 9.5kW at 240V, taking just under 40A. At 230V it will be a lower output? If you use a 40A MCB, I'd be surprised if it tripped.

 

[ray-bentos]

It has run fine for nearly 2 years on a 32amp MCB, its the design issues I'm worried about due to the Elecsa assessment.

 

[Richard Burns]

Either take SJD's suggestion 9.5kW @ 240V is 38A at 230V so a 40A breaker is fine.
or use an MK / Schneider CU to use a 45A MCB
Or as a shower is designed as short term load with no variation and a 40A MCB will take 41.3A for in excess of 2 hours this will not trip and cause nuisance.
The cable is protected as it can take 47A, you have short circuit protection and you are not designing a circuit where a small overload of long duration will occur. You are designing a small overload of short duration; this is permissible in the regulations, as other wise diversity calculations would not be possible. Although no diversity is permitted for showers this is a design decision that is safe and in accordance with common practice .

OK so write that down and have it available just in case the assessor should ask about your design calculations, (they very likely won't, unless they are reading this post!)

 

[KFH]

The assessors I have met are looking to pass you. You just have to make it easy for them. Make sure you have all the items on the assessment check list sorted and available. If you do not know the answer to a question do not try to bluff, just say you don't know and say where you will look it up, usually the On Site Guide. None of us, well perhaps the odd one, can remember everything.


Good luck.

 

[Prince1983]

Hi. I hope you've got some good news to share

 

[ray-bentos]

Yes got assessed yesterday, passed no worries!

 

[Dipzy]

Well done mate, was it as tough as you thought it might be?

 

[ray-bentos]

No it wasn't at all, in a strange way I actually enjoyed it once we got going, was a chance to exercise the old grey matter and even bounce a few questions off the assessor to get their take on things.

The assesor actually said himself he would have put the wire in question in trunking for the 6 inch run above the CU - it looks a c*ck clipped to wall (it is in pantry but just not a massive fan of bare T&E). He was pleased that I had considered the consequences of this with regard to CCC all the same so I guess they aren't trying to trip you up and if you can back up what you are doing then you have nothing to worry about.

I guess just nerves took over, all the mentions of "assessment" and the huge sums of money involved.