Elecsa registration and PIR's

[ianphilip007]

hi guys

just getting ready fo joining elecsa full scope.

now confused with regards to issuing PIR certs. Now it looks like they have a seperate scheme for full PIR's

my concern is reguarding CU changes i would normally carry out a PIR before the change. will i have to join this seperate scheme to do this?

many thanks

 

[malcolmsanford]

no.............................................

 

[ianphilip007]

very confusing i thought that onece registered with a scheme id be able to do PIR's as well. does anyone know why there is a seperate scheme for PIR's?

 

[malcolmsanford]

When you change your CU you are registering the job with the EIC, if I'am assuming you are going to use the ELECSA EIC, they have a unique number on each form.

If you joined their PIR scheme it would be exactly the same their PIR's have a unique number. If you are using the ELECSA forms then you do the EIC on theirs and the PIR on any other form you wish, as you are not notifying the PIR are you.

If you wanted do PIRs that are registered then the NAPIT full scope gives you PIR registration free, but you have to have either the 2391-10 or their own watered down version.

 

[ianphilip007]

so if you want to do PIR's for lets say landlords i assume these would have to be registered so you would need to be signed up for pir scheme.

when doing a cu change the pir would not be registered

correct ?

 

[malcolmsanford]

It depends on a couple of things, whether the landlord will accept your PIR as a non registered electrician, or will his insurance company accept them.

There is nothing in law that tells them that you have to be a scheme member to issue PIR's for domestic, commercial or industrial, it is what the organisation/person ordering the work requires, and often than not they will want you to be a member of a scheme.

 

[Johnny-G]

You can do PIR's for anyone without joining their PIR scheme, assuming you have sufficient knowledge and insurance.
I wouldn't bother doing a PIR for a board change either by the way, just the required tests on the EIC.

 

[Octopus]

Just remember when you're doing PIR's (if you do) don't use Elecsa, Napit or NICEIC forms unless you have their registration etc with them to do PIR's

 

[Lioned]

very confusing i thought that onece registered with a scheme id be able to do PIR's as well. does anyone know why there is a seperate scheme for PIR's?

To feed the 'cash cow' thats why. Cant remember exactly how much extra you have to pay but it also involves an additional assesment as well.
You are not compelled to join the pir scheme.I am a member of ELECSA and i checked with them prior to this years assessment as i'd been doing PIR's for landlords etc.
Here i give you the response from ELECSA head office when i asked the question..........

[FONT=&quot]"The electrical industry is generally self regulating, the only mandatory assessment being for membership of a Part P competent persons scheme. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is no [/FONT][FONT=&quot]legal requirement to pay the additional charge for 'periodic' assessment and we always advise [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that there is no requirement to be assessed to prove competency to carry out PIR if you feel you are competent this is your business. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You need to be aware that assessment for part P competency is not proof of competency to carry out PIRs or an assessment of your training and competence any other type of work."

So there you have it.Just have to consider yourself competent,and in the event you mess up and have to go to court then it may help if you have 'Inspection and Testing' City and Guilds 2391 or similiar.


[/FONT]

 

[Southern Spark]

yet again it comes down to interpretation. Our industry seems to be so badly regulated, no one seems to know where they stand on certain issues!! Please could some one clarify where i stand and what I can do.

I am off work sick at the moment, but I will be back in a few weeks and I have decided to work for myself. Currently I am not registered with anybody, but I will be NICEIC registered by the end of the year (hopefully). A regular customer of mine wants me to do PIRs on a few of her properties that she rents out, I have told her that because I am not a member of a scheme yet, I am unable to do it for her. Am I wrong saying this? I am very confident with my ability to carry out a PIR, as i have been doing it for years with my previous company, and were I am just starting out I need all the work I can get. So would I be okay just getting insurance and carrying out the reports for her, she knows I am not in a scheme, but that would not bother her as long as its above board.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Nothing wrong Southern on doing a PIR if it's not registered with a scheme, you just wouldn't be able to use their certificate or software for it. Just the standard forms found in the wholesalers.
Like Malcolm says it would all depend on your customer and if they are renting her insurance, they may stipulate they would want it done with it being connected to a scheme. Best ask.

 

[brucelee]

Hi mate you only have to be registered with a part p scheme to carry out notifiable work in domestic properties

To carry out PIRs you dont need to be registered with anyone but advisable to have indemnity insurance but as simon says best ask if her insurance requires you to be registered for PIRs

 

[Southern Spark]

Thanks for the replies guys, I shall let her know

 

[malcolmsanford]

The problem is Southern, what is to stop a non competent person from carrying out a PIR............. nothing,

What is to stop your landlord getting Fred from down the pub to do a PIR for her, as he knows a bit about electrical work, and it's just a bit of paper, and he will do it for 50 quid and everyone's a winner.

In these sad days of trying to blame everyone for everything, the insurance companies want landlords to have PIR's and the majority of insurance companies want the PIR's carried out by members of schemes, and in the main it is NICEIC schemes they ask for, as that is all they know.

As most of us know on here, being a member of a scheme is not always an indication of competency, but the insurance companies think it shows it, and if the insurance companies are happy that if anything went wrong they can point the finger at the inspector/scheme, as they have a recognized body to go after, unlike Fred down the pub who will never be seen again if it went pear shaped.

So I would say that out of perhaps a 100 generated landlord PIR,s you may get 10-15 that will not require you to be a member of any scam, unfortunately the majority will want you to be a member, and most likely a NICEIC member only.

 

[mattmoo1974]

Formfiller9(Which is free),Imdenity insurance, MFT meter, 2391 And a brain...
You can ofcourse Join a scam and also pay to whack for a PIR form with there name on it!!!
For them its another excuse to screw more money out of you..