Electrical certification for house?

[B1gSte]

Hi there. I have just joined this forum to ask a few questions if that's ok.

I have read that any electrical work undertaken in my house must be certified and that this certification would be needed when selling my house.

The thing is, when I bought the house there was no mention of any such certification provided with it.

I recently went into my loft and noticed a couple of dodgy looking cables.

One looks like the 4 core stuff used in 2 way lighting but only has a blue and a yellow connected together with one of those "chocolate block" type connectors. I can't see where it goes as most of the loft space is boarded.

I also noticed that a junction box has been used for the down lights in the bathroom and there is a "spare" wire in it that I can't fathom out the purpose of.

There is a twin and earth supply (in black and red), a black and red to each down lighter, a black and red switch wire to the ceiling switch and then another cable of which only the red is connected to the live in and the black is connected to an otherwise unused terminal in the junction box.
I also not that not one of the earth conductors has been terminated.
Is this likely to be due to the type of fitting?
Surely the Earth terminations should still meet in the junction box?

So to my next query..
How do I know what Tom, Dick and Harry has wired the house and how is it ever traceable as to proving who did it and whether they were competent?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi there. I have just joined this forum to ask a few questions if that's ok.

I have read that any electrical work undertaken in my house must be certified and that this certification would be needed when selling my house.

The thing is, when I bought the house there was no mention of any such certification provided with it.

I recently went into my loft and noticed a couple of dodgy looking cables.

One looks like the 4 core stuff used in 2 way lighting but only has a blue and a yellow connected together with one of those "chocolate block" type connectors. I can't see where it goes as most of the loft space is boarded.

I also noticed that a junction box has been used for the down lights in the bathroom and there is a "spare" wire in it that I can't fathom out the purpose of.

There is a twin and earth supply (in black and red), a black and red to each down lighter, a black and red switch wire to the ceiling switch and then another cable of which only the red is connected to the live in and the black is connected to an otherwise unused terminal in the junction box.
I also not that not one of the earth conductors has been terminated.
Is this likely to be due to the type of fitting?
Surely the Earth terminations should still meet in the junction box?

So to my next query..
How do I know what Tom, Dick and Harry has wired the house and how is it ever traceable as to proving who did it and whether they were competent?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve.

If any work has been notified by an electrician who is a member of the NICEIC can be checked here

NICEIC Online Certification: Notification Check - http://checkmynotification.com/

Only problem is its only NICEIC and elecsa but there are other schemes out there.

 

[Octopus]

Given the colours of the cables you describe, the house must be at least 15 years old ... so any ones guess what's been changed over the years.

You could commission your own EICR to get an idea of the installation... but make sure its not a £50 drive past... be specific as to what you want them to look at and do

 

[Pete999]

Hi there. I have just joined this forum to ask a few questions if that's ok.

I have read that any electrical work undertaken in my house must be certified and that this certification would be needed when selling my house.

The thing is, when I bought the house there was no mention of any such certification provided with it.

I recently went into my loft and noticed a couple of dodgy looking cables.

One looks like the 4 core stuff used in 2 way lighting but only has a blue and a yellow connected together with one of those "chocolate block" type connectors. I can't see where it goes as most of the loft space is boarded.

I also noticed that a junction box has been used for the down lights in the bathroom and there is a "spare" wire in it that I can't fathom out the purpose of.

There is a twin and earth supply (in black and red), a black and red to each down lighter, a black and red switch wire to the ceiling switch and then another cable of which only the red is connected to the live in and the black is connected to an otherwise unused terminal in the junction box.
I also not that not one of the earth conductors has been terminated.
Is this likely to be due to the type of fitting?
Surely the Earth terminations should still meet in the junction box?

So to my next query..
How do I know what Tom, Dick and Harry has wired the house and how is it ever traceable as to proving who did it and whether they were competent?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve.

By any chance has there been any work done in the bathroom by bathroom fitters etc

 

[Paul_Williams]

Circuit protective conductors (earth) must always be connected/maintained at any junction/connection of the fixed wiring.

Notifiable work should be registered with the local building control office, might be worth going to them to see if they have any records, that might help identify who did some of the work, if they were bone-fide electricians.

 

[Paul_Williams]

Murdoch is right ... EICR agree limitations/extent with the electrician ... expect to pay a sensible price for it ... peanuts monkeys and all that.

 

[B1gSte]

If any work has been notified by an electrician who is a member of the NICEIC can be checked here

NICEIC Online Certification: Notification Check - http://checkmynotification.com/

Only problem is its only NICEIC and there are other schemes out there.

Thanks for the quick reply.
I will have a look at that.
I did find details of some history in the previous building regs applications on my local council website but this was only for a new consumer unit and a new ring main and cooker circuit in the kitchen.
The consumer unit was done in 2006. It has a sticker on it notifying two versions of BS7671 colours.
It looks to be a lazy job as all the outgoing cables have been run up the wall in surface trunking to the first floor level!
I have just had plans passed for a decent sized extension so am considering having the whole lot upgraded.

There seem to be a number of official bodies governing this type of work.
What do I need to look for to make sure I get a decent electrician who knows what they're doing?

Thanks. X

 

[B1gSte]

Ps I never put that kiss (X) on the end of my post! Really I didn't.

 

[FatAlan]

When did you buy the house?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I will have a look at that.
I did find details of some history in the previous building regs applications on my local council website but this was only for a new consumer unit and a new ring main and cooker circuit in the kitchen.
The consumer unit was done in 2006. It has a sticker on it notifying two versions of BS7671 colours.
It looks to be a lazy job as all the outgoing cables have been run up the wall in surface trunking to the first floor level!
I have just had plans passed for a decent sized extension so am considering having the whole lot upgraded.

There seem to be a number of official bodies governing this type of work.
What do I need to look for to make sure I get a decent electrician who knows what they're doing?

Thanks. X

plenty of electricians on here who know their stuff from around your way. You could post the job in here

Looking for Domestic Electricians? - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/forums/looking-for-domestic-electricians.85/

 

[Leesparkykent]

Ps I never put that kiss (X) on the end of my post! Really I didn't.

haha no probs x

 

[B1gSte]

When did you buy the house?

April 2014.

 

[B1gSte]

plenty of electricians on here who know their stuff from around your way. You could post the job in here

Looking for Domestic Electricians? - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/forums/looking-for-domestic-electricians.85/

Yes I might do when we finally get on with the build. Thanks.

 

[B1gSte]

Given the colours of the cables you describe, the house must be at least 15 years old ... so any ones guess what's been changed over the years.

You could commission your own EICR to get an idea of the installation... but make sure its not a £50 drive past... be specific as to what you want them to look at and do

Yes the house is a 1950's ex council....and it gets worse....it's a Wimpey no fines! Aaargh! Thanks. (Trying to keep up with all the replies thanks everyone who has.

 

[Leesparkykent]

haha no probs x

HAHA @GMES........you git

 

[Taylortwocities]

Pop a few on here.

 

[B1gSte]

By any chance has there been any work done in the bathroom by bathroom fitters etc

Hi Pete. Yes possibly as it has a fairly new(ish) bathroom.
I've just remembered also it used to be a separate bathroom and toilet.
I'm wondering if that means the other cable is the other switch wire which has most likely been buried and left connected to the live part of the loop!

 

[B1gSte]

Murdoch is right ... EICR agree limitations/extent with the electrician ... expect to pay a sensible price for it ... peanuts monkeys and all that.

Thanks. As said I might just have it all ripped out and redone.
Might regret not waiting to have the loft insulated now!

 

[B1gSte]

Circuit protective conductors (earth) must always be connected/maintained at any junction/connection of the fixed wiring.

Notifiable work should be registered with the local building control office, might be worth going to them to see if they have any records, that might help identify who did some of the work, if they were bone-fide electricians.

Thanks. Judging from your first paragraph they don't appear to have been bone-fide.

 

[B1gSte]

HAHA @GMES........you git

.? Did I miss a post?

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete. Yes possibly as it has a fairly new(ish) bathroom.
I've just remembered also it used to be a separate bathroom and toilet.
I'm wondering if that means the other cable is the other switch wire which has most likely been buried and left connected to the live part of the loop!

Just a thought but I had my bathroom done a few months ago and the" Electrician" was the same bloke that did the plumbing, needless to say I did the Electrics, it could be you have had Bill the bathroom fitter do the electrics in your house, if you can find out who did the bathroom you could confront them, a long shot I know.

 

[B1gSte]

It just makes me wonder what is the point in electricians having qualifications when some cowboy can just make a pigs ear of my wiring and ride off into the sunset. Does that mean that there is no real sure way of checking these things?
I mean, when I bought the house, there was no mention of certificates etc. I remember the vendor mentioning the new consumer unit and the additional sockets in the bedroom were "recent".

 

[Leesparkykent]

It just makes me wonder what is the point in electricians having qualifications when some cowboy can just make a pigs ear of my wiring and ride off into the sunset. Does that mean that there is no real sure way of checking these things?
I mean, when I bought the house, there was no mention of certificates etc. I remember the vendor mentioning the new consumer unit and the additional sockets in the bedroom were "recent".

This is something your solicitor should of insisted on if it was evident from the survey the consumer unit etc had been replaced.

 

[B1gSte]

Pop a few on here.

I will go up in the loft and take a few photos tomorrow after work.
I've just had a bath so it's not a good time to do so now (and it's not even my birthday!).

 

[B1gSte]

This is something your solicitor should of insisted on if it was evident from the survey the consumer unit etc had been replaced.

Yes IIRC it was mentioned on the survey that it was "part rewired" but I don't recall the solicitor bringing up as an issue.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Yes IIRC it was mentioned on the survey that it was "part rewired" but I don't recall the solicitor bringing up as an issue.

If he done his job properly then he should of asked for them and if they wasn't forthcoming then an EICR could of been conducted which would of probably highlighted the defects which in turn you could of used as ammo to reduce the cost. Maybe take it up with the solicitor as there will be a paper trail?

 

[FatAlan]

You don't need a certificate to sell your house. If you're unhappy about the wiring it may be wise to get it checked for your own safety if you have concerns. A buyer may want to get it checked prior to purchase, then any issues uncovered will be a negotiating point between you and them.

 

[B1gSte]

If he done his job properly then he should of asked for them and if they wasn't forthcoming then an EICR could of been conducted which would of probably highlighted the defects which in turn you could of used as ammo to reduce the cost. Maybe take it up with the solicitor as there will be a paper trail?

Thanks Lee. To be fair I got a fairly hefty discount off the asking price when I bought the house I doubt I would have pushed them down further.
I've got a decent bit of equity in it already.
It's my own fault really for being a bit green...first house purchase so didn't know the ropes.
I will definately need the meter and dist board moving when I do the extension and I want the ugly surface mounted cables shifting too so will be a good opportunity to have it all checked out and brought up to standard.

 

[B1gSte]

You don't need a certificate to sell your house. If you're unhappy about the wiring it may be wise to get it checked for your own safety if you have concerns. A buyer may want to get it checked prior to purchase, then any issues uncovered will be a negotiating point between you and them.

Thanks Alan. Does that mean Joe Bloggs could do his own DIY rewire and as long as some numpty like me buys his house he can get away with it?
Erm I guess I am the proof of the pudding lol

 

[FatAlan]

There are clear regulations about what you can and can't do electrically and who is competent to do so. However, as far as I'm aware it's still very much buyer beware re wiring much like the depth of the structural survey that will be done as a requirement for the lender. Very few houses will meet current regulations as the regs are updated all the time and are not retrospective and it doesn't necessarily mean they are dangerous. So in answer to your question, yes, if you don't get the wiring checked before purchase it's very easy to buy a lash up. If you did identify work that needed doing you may want to factor that into the purchase negotiations. If you are selling and you have concerns, at least for your own safety get it checked to ensure there is nothing dangerous.

 

[B1gSte]

There are clear regulations about what you can and can't do electrically and who is competent to do so. However, as far as I'm aware it's still very much buyer beware re wiring much like the depth of the structural survey that will be done as a requirement for the lender. Very few houses will meet current regulations as the regs are updated all the time and are not retrospective and it doesn't necessarily mean they are dangerous. So in answer to your question, yes, if you don't get the wiring checked before purchase it's very easy to buy a lash up. If you did identify work that needed doing you may want to factor that into the purchase negotiations. If you are selling and you have concerns, at least for your own safety get it checked to ensure there is nothing dangerous.

Thanks Alan.

 

[Toneyz]

From your 1st post apart from the cables in connection block you are asking how things have been wired,just because something looks messy does not make it unsafe saying that I think you need a good electrical installation condition report and I'm sure that they can advise what needs to be done (you need to let them know also you need to know the outcome noted in your post.
Part P came into force Jan 2005 so any work under the part P at the time should have been notified inc c.unit. you should also have electrical certificates for work done before and after this date.As posted you need to see if they exist from any of the sceams a lot of these can be checked on line as well as through your local council building control. if there is a name on the sticker of the consumer unit you could contact them however electrical contractors will only hold on to coppies for a fixed length of time.

 

[Pete999]

It just makes me wonder what is the point in electricians having qualifications when some cowboy can just make a pigs ear of my wiring and ride off into the sunset. Does that mean that there is no real sure way of checking these things?
I mean, when I bought the house, there was no mention of certificates etc. I remember the vendor mentioning the new consumer unit and the additional sockets in the bedroom were "recent".

I agree make decent Sparks very angry, and that's being polite

 

[Pete999]

From your 1st post apart from the cables in connection block you are asking how things have been wired,just because something looks messy does not make it unsafe saying that I think you need a good electrical installation condition report and I'm sure that they can advise what needs to be done (you need to let them know also you need to know the outcome noted in your post.
Part P came into force Jan 2005 so any work under the part P at the time should have been notified inc c.unit. you should also have electrical certificates for work done before and after this date.As posted you need to see if they exist from any of the sceams a lot of these can be checked on line as well as through your local council building control. if there is a name on the sticker of the consumer unit you could contact them however electrical contractors will only hold on to coppies for a fixed length of time.

That should read SHOULD HOLD COPIES

 

[Midwest]

If any work has been notified by an electrician who is a member of the NICEIC can be checked here

NICEIC Online Certification: Notification Check - http://checkmynotification.com/

Only problem is its only NICEIC and elecsa but there are other schemes out there.

Lee couldn't get that NIC web page to function. Wasn't locating on addresses, for notifications (which I know have been recorded). I entered a cert number (Building Regs Compliance), and that wasn't found either.

Have you got it to work? Only mention it 'cos OP might come across the same, and come to the wrong conclusion.

PS They were Elecsa numbers, perhaps they have their own search page?

 

[Midwest]

Lee couldn't get that NIC web page to function. Wasn't locating on addresses, for notifications (which I know have been recorded). I entered a cert number (Building Regs Compliance), and that wasn't found either.

Have you got it to work? Only mention it 'cos OP might come across the same, and come to the wrong conclusion.

PS They were Elecsa numbers, perhaps they have their own search page?

Cancel that, seems the Elecsa (NIC) web site has technical issues this morning.

 

[B1gSte]

Well thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply.
Here are the photos as promised...

The light fittings are connected to top left and top right terminal.
The cable coming in at the top from the left is the live and neutral.
The cable coming in at 9 o'clock is the ceiling switch.
I believe the cable at 6 o'clock is maybe the redundant switch wire which would have originally fed one of the lights when the bathroom and toilet were separate.
As can be seen, all of the Earth conductors have been snipped and there are no sleeves on any of the black switch wires.

The other photo shows the cable which has the taped up connector and disappears under the loft boards.

Thanks for looking.

View attachment 35247

View attachment 35248

 

[westward10]

Doesn't look good, the cpcs have been cut out which may mean some accessories or fittings are not earthed. I would say that has been like that for years from the look of it.