Electrical Courses

[Apprentice]

Hi all,

Having recently been made redundant, I am looking for a new career and have settled on becoming an electrician. I would really appreciate some advice!

I have been informed that obtaining a "Part P" is necessary before being able to work on residential electrical work, and have found a college offering this course along with various others as a "package". This includes:

Domestic Installation Workshop (5 days @ £459)
City and Guilds 2392-10 Inspection and Testing Course (4 days @ £536)
Part P Domestic Electrical Installers Course (5 days @£801)
City and Guilds 2832-10 17th Edition Course (3 days @ £458)

As the college also offers each course seperatly, my question to anyone able to offer advice is are all these courses necessary or should I just get my Part P, begin working as
an electricians mate and complete other courses later down the line. I have limited funds and if I am able to make savings at this stage, so much the better!

Your advice/thoughts would be much appreciated!!

 

[Penance]

Ignore the part P course, part P is not a qualification it is part of the building regs.

Have a look at the stickies there is one covering that.

 

[Apprentice]

Thanks Penance. I have also just read a post by Durham Sparky which was really helpful. I guess the City and Guilds courses are good one for me as a beginner.....

 

[B6 7BU]

You might get some FREE training

 

[Sparky Ninja]

What are the particulars of the courses at this centre?

What does the domestic electrical installers course contain?

 

[SKY]

To become an electrician takes years, not by doing the courses above over the space of a few months.

The installation course and the part P course (which don't exist) is a waste of money.

I see that you have also put down the testing and inspecting C&G course which is a good cause but you will not be able to complete the full scope of tests competently after 4 days, this take lots of time and experience.

These courses teach you how to pass an exam. To be a competent and safe electrician takes lots of training and time on job. Courses like the above are causing a drop in standards in our trade which in turn will effect the safety of users.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Can we maybe offer more proactive advice here chaps. Instead of just slating all these courses.

 

[SKY]

I tried to be proactive in the respect of the OP saying that he has limited funds, other posters have directed the OP to the stickys I just want to explain the general attitude of these "pile them high" training providers.

If the OP things he will be an electrician after these course's then I cannot fool him - to be an electrician on most site work where I live in London you need at least an NVQ.

 

[ExArmy]

Ignore the part P course, part P is not a qualification it is part of the building regs.

I did a domestic installers course (which incorporated part p), and it wasn't a waste of time at all it was very good. although it was 2 weeks long for about the same money. on the course there were scottish people, and people who intended on emigrating and as part p would be worthless to them they just saved their £264 and didn't do the building regs exam. but a domestic installers course is quite a decent course to do if you ask me.

 

[Apprentice]

Widdler, the course provider says that the Domestic Elec. Installers course...."gives you the knowledge, skills and qualifications to enable you to competently install your domestic electrical work, compliant with Part P of the Building Regulations, this course concludes with an online exam to gain your City & Guilds certificate." I guess that does not give lots of info, but it sounds usefull to me....??

Sky, I know that to become a competent Electrician is going to take alot of hard work and dedication, I do not want to give the impression that I'm going for "zero to hero" as quickly as possible just that I would like to be certified to begin in the trade at entry level. I see your point about the drop in standards and assure you I do not want to be a part of that...

ExArmy....cheers, good to hear that someone has found a similar course useful....

All these comments are useful guys....thanks for the time

 

[Richard]

To become an electrician takes years, not by doing the courses above over the space of a few months.

The installation course and the part P course (which don't exist) is a waste of money.

I see that you have also put down the testing and inspecting C&G course which is a good cause but you will not be able to complete the full scope of tests competently after 4 days, this take lots of time and experience.

These courses teach you how to pass an exam. To be a competent and safe electrician takes lots of training and time on job. Courses like the above are causing a drop in standards in our trade which in turn will effect the safety of users.

I couldn't have put it better my self.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

The problem you have Apprentice is that you are seeking advice from the wrong people. It has been accepted by governing bodies, the IET and Awarding bodies that the scope of domestic work can be carried out by an individual who has undergone training and gained the necessary qualifications demanded.
Unfortunately for obvious reasons you will only, on the majority, get the opinions of time served 3 years+ guys here who have nothing but bad news for you and will tell you to give up and not waste your money.

I myself am a 4 year guy, however I have been teaching electrical installation for a few years now and feel I am probably in a good position to post judgement on student developments. I teach both 2330 to chaps on their 3rd year, and EAL Domestic installer courses along with 2382-10, 2382-20, 2392, 2391-10, 2391-20 & 2377 to newcomers and experienced electricians.

I deliver the intensive domestic stuff on an 45hour week for 5 weeks (225 hours) which is the equivalent of just over a year for the 3 year chaps (216 hours).

Clearly this will make electricians say 'that's just one year out of three' but in retrospect that is enough time to deliver the essential knowledge and training for domestic work. One of the main excuses the quick courses get knocked is that there isn't enough time to gain practical skills and experience to work safely, and for some candidates this most definitely can be true.

My observations of my guys is that they really do apply themselves. They have to be reminded about lunchtime and hometime as they are so engrossed in their work and delivering material to them is much easier than my 2330 evening lads. We have the odd laugh about how ridiculously complicated some of the stuff gets but I'm always quizzing them and assessing them which keeps them sharp and focussed.

I'm honest to these guys and tell them that finding employment will be difficult, and they should progress further with seeking an NVQ. Furthermore I remind them constantly that they should consider themselves domestic installers/electricians and not electricians upon completion.

I was dubious at first, but having seen the development and work carried out by some of these guy/gals I decided that I shouldn't judge someone by their training and should by their productivity and ability.

There is still a lot of progress required in this young era of training, but it all lays in the hands of the training centres to create proper assessment strategies and ensure that their staff deliver effectively, and to stop being a selling machine.

My suggestion to you would be to seek out some members here who are attending similar training centres and ask them for their opinion to the training they have received.

 

[SKY]

Good post there widdler.

 

[j0nno]

city and guilds 2330 is your core electrical qualification / skill, in which you achieve nvq level 2 and level 3, can take upto 4 yrs to get. the other courses, are only meant to be obtainable after you have gotten the 2330.
most companys are asking for jib approved electricians, and jib will not recognise you as an electrician until you have completed the level 3 nvq, you will only be a trainee, or adult trainee with a white ecs card. the hardest part of 2330 is getting your logbook signed off for the nvq, mine took another 2 yrs almost after i finished college.

 

[NMc]

What electrical qualification have you got to date? If non then you are looking at starting from the beginning C&G2330

 

[malcolmsanford]

As you know Widdler I have the utmost respect for your abilities and training knowledge and though I agree fundimentaly with what you say I can only comment on what I feel these intensive courses lack.

As you pointed out there is 225hours of training given which is the equivilent if not more of a year in an apprenticeship. I'm afaid I'm going to be one that is going to say that in a year you will not be able to wire someones house, carry out the testing in that house, fault find in that house.

Even in the domestic enviroment there will be times where you will come across a situation, where only your years of experience and training will help you solve the problem. Every apprentice will have on site guidance from an experienced electrician, and that electrician will be the judge of when he feels the apprentice is deemed competant before he will be let loose on an installation. Even then he will still supervise his work. He will have the back up of that electrician to advise and help, something that an intensive course person will not have.

You can have the situation where an accountant for 15 years can take an intensive 6 week course and in the 7th week have the responsibility of wiring someones house, carrying out tests on the installation and signing it off as safe. I can't comment on your courses Widdler but I'm sure you agree that some training centres train to pass people in an exam, no to actually train them in work.

There will always be exceptions, you will get someone that will be a competant domestic installer in 6 weeks, as you will get a time served apprentice who is not competant in 5 years. It's just my opinion but on experience I would imagine you would get less competant 6 week intensive course people than time served apprentices, and if that is the case, it means to me that the industry is becoming less safe than safer.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Experience is definitely an Achilles heel for these guys. I account for it by insisting on a 6 months gap before their final 2391-10 week. I also do some EV work on them in this time.
Unfortunately others centres do not.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I knew you would do something like that, and it seem you are the type that goes beyond the call of duty so to speak.

It is a difficult situation that our industry faces, becasue of the lack of industry as there were in my day solid grounding in it is sadly lacking. I never decry people trying to better themselves or re-training, I just feel that there is vast difference in re-training to be a tiler or a plasterer or even a plumber.

I in fact feel sorry for apprentice and others who would make good rounded electricians if they were given the chance to be one. Sadly unlike you mate the majority of centers seems to be driven to making people pass an exam only.

It seems that today we are driven by speed, we see numerous posts where people want to do it the quickest way, less work way, instead of the best way. That is why I loved working for myself, I wasn't overly bothered if it took me a day to change a CU, I would rather fit an adaptable box with din rail and klippons, than extend via crimps.

Keep up the good training Widdler it is sorely needed.

 

[Daytona955]

Hello mate. Im in the process (ending) of cross training and lashed out on a course with OLCI. Ive read some bad things about them but i found my centre quite good. Theres new law coming in this year i believe and dont quote me on this but looking at other forums the 5 day course may soon be a thing of the past UNLESS already registered with someone like Napit, Elecsa etc,apparently you will be needing a level 3 certificate. I did the c&g 2330 level 2 and 3 and soon the part P exam (just cos it was thrown in) and the 17th edition exam soon after. To complete the NVQ3 ill have to go go self employed (around my full time job) and fill it in as it goes but it seems many dont bother. Doing it tho helps me become JIB registered!. Rang Napit today and they hold the 2330 in high regard and as long as i do the 2391 within 12 months (and 17th ed..part P isnt even mentioned!) i can register with them now. I believe the c&g level 2&3 at college takes 3 years but completed it in 7 months as you do ALL your learning at home. The ONLY reason i went this way rather than the domestic installer was to be able to legally call myself an electrician and , in these tough times, able to work anywhere and not just in domestic. Im certainlty no expert at this and many experienced people on here will steer you all ways im just putting in my little bit! They do easy payment schemes and it may be an option. Just be prepared to be mentally done over for a while ...oh and if on the course you can reg with napit after just the level 2 2330 and get earning which is around 3-4 months in if you go for it. However with any course or qualification experience is the ticket. Ive come from an engineering background (qualified mechanical enineer for 20 years) which helped but some there aged 30 plus had never even used a hand drill before and just failed everything badly. Good luck with whatever you do mate.

 

[bugsy]

I really don't want to put you off , but checkout the post's regarding work experiance and getting placements ( one guy's offering to pay £50.00 a day to work)
look at your earning potential, look at the suitability of the course and the meaningful qualifications and then do a risk assesment
Ther are some poor sod's on this forum that have spent a lot of money with no job prospects at the end of it - I f your really determind to become a an electrician (in the full meaning of the term ) then crack on and most people on this forum will endervour to help as much as possible - Im not trying to put you off just being honest

 

[tonys]

The 17th and 2391 are recognized courses and worth doing once your on the tools working/training.

The part p thing and workshop thing are both a joke and a waste of money. That's my opinion because I had the opportunity to actually train properly on site with Qualified Electricians.

Hold on to your money until you find a company or someone who is/are prepared to give you an opportunity to train. Easiest thing in the world is to part with your money, but the hardest thing is to earn it.

 

[Daytona955]

I disagree and agree on here. Ive realised you need to learn then slowly build, mbe as self employed, and gain experience. I know after a long training course that now i have to pick away slowly and gain experience and a rep . Its not a case of 5 days and then full on money i dont think but im hoping after another year or so on the job ill be able to leave my full time job and go for it. Sadly these days apprenticeships arent around for us older people but there are options (i did an apprenticeship in mechanical engineering and take the mick out of the nvq crew but its their only way in). However be realistic at the same time...being a good electrician is not an easy task. Hats off to the guys on here that have been time served but lets be honest, when i was an apprentice at 16 did i care or have any life skills...NO .. if you have some skills and are determined i think you can achieve your goal.

 

[bugsy]

I would in all honesty prefer to take on an apprentice over twenty five , under that there brains are in there nuts and there hearts down the pub - there are of course a few exceptions and the exceptions want your job! fair play