Electrical Test sheets & Fudged Figures

[Beyond Espresso]

I need some advice, I've been doing the OM manuals for installations and come across an electrical test sheet which I believe is fudged.

Background of the story, is the handwritten one (NICEIC System was playing up) went walkies. Lost, never to be found. The QS produced the handwritten one, but didn't give me the opportunity to look at it and check whose handwriting it was. So week later I get a test sheet via email, with these figures on. Checked them out, ALL seemed completely fudged. The readings were too perfect. For a fact I know that building was tired, It wasn't a full strip out and installation. So you'd expect figures up and down.

What's the consequences of a fudged NICEIC certificate? (I've not issued it to the client yet)

 

[westward10]

Need more info, what figures and how did you check them out.

 

[Pete999]

I need some advice, I've been doing the OM manuals for installations and come across an electrical test sheet which I believe is fudged.

Background of the story, is the handwritten one (NICEIC System was playing up) went walkies. Lost, never to be found. The QS produced the handwritten one, but didn't give me the opportunity to look at it and check whose handwriting it was. So week later I get a test sheet via email, with these figures on. Checked them out, ALL seemed completely fudged. The readings were too perfect. For a fact I know that building was tired, It wasn't a full strip out and installation. So you'd expect figures up and down.

What's the consequences of a fudged NICEIC certificate? (I've not issued it to the client yet)

I see you have no electrical experience, so you may not be able to answer my question, what readings are / where all to perfect? as to the consequences of a fudged certificate, if the only evidence you have is a bit hazy, it would be difficult to prove unless some sample tests were repeated, for comparison with the ones you have, you could report your thoughts to the QS and his boss, or the other option would be to contact the NICEIC, although there are some who think that is a waste of time, Can you scan the certificate and post a copy, erasing all the names of course.

 

[Beyond Espresso]

I got someone who teaches electrical to check it over. Because I knew the original figures had gone missing and I was expecting this to turn up.
here's his reply

It looks fabricated- never in the real world do the values of R1 and R2 when added to the external value of Ze perfectly match the recorded value of Zs.


Sorry if that is technical but its simply the resistance of each circuit which then determines a number of safety features.


Yes its fudged


So on this job the ZE is 0.17
1 = 0.16 ZS = 0.33
2 = 0.19 ZS = 0.36
3 = 0.21 ZS = 0.38
5 = 0.23 ZS = 0.40

Also, My lads label up 1TP OR 4L1 So on so forth. But on this particular cert its just 1,2,3,4

Cheers

 

[Beyond Espresso]

There isn't just 4 readings - I just gave an extract

Regards

 

[Pete999]

I got someone who teaches electrical to check it over. Because I knew the original figures had gone missing and I was expecting this to turn up.
here's his reply

It looks fabricated- never in the real world do the values of R1 and R2 when added to the external value of Ze perfectly match the recorded value of Zs.


Sorry if that is technical but its simply the resistance of each circuit which then determines a number of safety features.


Yes its fudged


So on this job the ZE is 0.17
1 = 0.16 ZS = 0.33
2 = 0.19 ZS = 0.36
3 = 0.21 ZS = 0.38
5 = 0.23 ZS = 0.40

Also, My lads label up 1TP OR 4L1 So on so forth. But on this particular cert its just 1,2,3,4

Cheers

I must admit they do all look like calculated results, are these the only results you are concerned over?

 

[Pete999]

There isn't just 4 readings - I just gave an extract

Regards

Hard to draw any real conclusions in that case

 

[Beyond Espresso]

Just this test sheet - There is 13 readings on this test sheet.
I used a handful of previous sheets to check the readings against, and none of the flagged up any concerns.

 

[westward10]

Do the values of Zs seem okay because I wouldn't lose sleep over some calculated continuity values. As for numbering the circuits there are no hard rules to this as long as they are clear.

 

[Beyond Espresso]

Hard to draw any real conclusions in that case

Only extract for the forum purposes. I have 13 readings in total. THE WHOLE of the test sheet

 

[Pete999]

Only extract for the forum purposes. I have 13 readings in total. THE WHOLE of the test sheet

What all Ze / Zs readings, what are the Zs readings for sockets, lighting, others?

 

[Des 56]

Inspection and testing Guidance note 3
Earth fault loop impedance may be determined by
1 Measurement of R1+R2 and adding Ze
2 Direct measurement using a earth fault loop impedance tester

 

[Pete999]

Inspection and testing Guidance note 3
Earth fault loop impedance may be determined by
1 Measurement of R1+R2 and adding Ze
2 Direct measurement using a earth fault loop impedance tester

I may be barking up the wrong tree, and I agree with you on this, is it not bending the rules a bit as the results given are calculated readings of R1+R2 ergo R1+R2 = Ze+Zs at least I think that is what has been said

 

[Des 56]

Well that may be the case Pete,however,the R1+R2 "is" a measured test and adding that to a measured Ze is whats allowed
There does not seem to be any compulsion to record a direct measurement, only that the reading is measured and step 1 is a measured reading

 

[Pete999]

Well that may be the case Pete,however,the R1+R2 "is" a measured test and adding that to a measured Ze is whats allowed
There does not seem to be any compulsion to record a direct measurement, only that the reading is measured and step 1 is a measured reading

Agree Des but the readings (Fudged or not) indicate he has calculated R1+R2 by adding Ze to Zs that's all I was trying to say , crikey I'm even confusing myself