Electricians who refuse to be wrong...!

[Darkwood]

A collegue of mine has just weighed a job up for a launderette and established that the required KVA would need to be 120KVA, this was in a row of shops and the existing supply is service head 3 x 100amp fuses so an upgrade would be required... no prob' thus far well until the maintenance electrician for the shop landlord payed a visit for whatever reason (my collegue is working for the preposed tenant). He just enquired what were the plans as he does the maintenance for the shops so it was explained to him, he said you dont need to upgrade supply as you already have 200KVA available? Where?.. he was asked as he showed him the 3ph 100amp service head "there!"???
So he was asked how he worked that out to which he replied with condesending remarks about my collegues knowledge...." ermmm! 100amp fuses and just double it to get KVA..... im NICEIC registered and know what im talking about"!!
My mate laughed at him and said they'll let anyone in nowadays and then said i tell you what ill do the installation as required by my customer and will include a clause that your giving written confirmation that the existing supply is large enough and WHEN! the cutout fuses go all upgrade costs labour etc are covered by your inurance... walking away he spurts out 'I know my job its you who needs to learn yours'


Ummm i hope hes a member on here id love to see him jusify his comments!

 

[telectrix]

im NICEIC registered and know what im talking about"!!

obviously not. wonder how many service fuses he's caused to fail.

 

[Darkwood]

He called me just to cheer me up as mondays is always a crap day, we just laughed about him.... we even told him the fast way to work KVA out which will get you close to the figure to which he said 'you dont know what your on about'

I use this fast method 3phase is amps X 0.73= KVA, 1phase is amps X 0.24 = KVA (transpose as needed)
So 3phase 100amp cutout fuses is 100 x 0.73 = 73kva available.
we've asked for 120kva 3ph so that would be 120/0.73 =164amps

Obviously this is what the cutout will allow but service agreements for KVA allowance with DNO may reduce this rating.
What makes us laugh more is the new tenant has signed a 15yr lease against our advice as we explained to her the upgrade may not be a possibility and we need to wait for DNO's verdict and costing, it seems hes has been talking to her too and she's gone with his advice believing the existing to be big enough.


oh dear!!!! We told her about the clause we will put into our quote and explained that he may have made a costly mistake.

 

[telectrix]

i work it out as each phase is (V x A)/1000 i.e. 23kVA per phase, so 3 phase is 23 x 3 = 69kVA

 

[Darkwood]

i work it out as each phase is (V x A)/1000 i.e. 23kVA per phase, so 3 phase is 23 x 3 = 69kVA

Cant argue with that, read my last post for quick onsite calc method, it saves abit of time and less confusing and as you see it give a ball park figure.

 

[telectrix]

either way is perfectly acceptable. proves the guy dead wrong, though don't it?

 

[Hiddo]

Loads of the "I know what I'm talking about" brigade around!!

My 13 year old lad who sits and watches me every now and again knows more than most of them.

 

[Darkwood]

What make me laugh now i can imagine the seed of doubt thats be sown in his mind so he going to be panicking and trying to search for a calculation to fit his answer....Happy searching :bomb2:

 

[telectrix]

does he have a partner? :iamwithstupid:

 

[RISElectrical]

Sod the clauses, tell customer that for you to complete the job it has to be done to your design and explain fully why its needed giving written guidance.

You sub clause wont do you much good when payment is with held as the installation you provided isn't functional nor fit for purpose. I image you would have to foot the bill for it to be done correctly and then "if" your clause is supportable you would have to claim the monies back.

Will the numpty be willing to sign the design aspect of the EIC?

 

[Darkwood]

We are covering ourselfs Rise, the above is just talk and is really just to get him off the scene, nothing will be started until DNO give a costing for (if possible) new supply then it will be designed as should be, i got a feeling he wont be seen near the job again when he realises he's not as much a sparkie he thought he was.

 

[Knobhead]

If you PM your e-mail address I’ll send you a copy of 3Ph calculations spreadsheet.

 

[Guitarist]

Would be nice if you made up a few small "ohm's law" (plus a few calculations) stickers and placed them in places you know he will see. Just to help him out of course.

 

[telectrix]

give him this on a beermat

 

[Guitarist]

That is a great idea tel, but do you think he would understand it? Now, if he was Elecsa registered, rather than NIC, he may do