"Electricians" working for kitchen fitters - please don't do this...

[Dartlec]

Called to a previous client to work out why he doesn't have lights or fan in his downstairs shower room, or outdoor light...

Worked out that there was no permanent live to the switch, though there was to the fan isolator above it....

Kitchen was recently done, and "electricians" working for the kitchen fitter changed the lights and added a new sub consumer unit for the relevant circuits

4 days later, the downstairs lights stopped working, so could be coincidence, but also seems likely they may have nudged a cable loose somewhere. So lifted the floorboards where they had accessed the existing light transformers to add their new lights - to find this:



No idea if they added the choc boxes (when were they first produced? Last kitchen work was done in 2003), but even so found this, connected their stuff to it - and happily put the floor back down...

Opened the choc box and this is what happened:



And incidentally for some bizarre reason there is 2.5mm cable joining those boxes, even though it is all on the switched feed to the lights...

And this is how they connected another of the leads to their LAP downlights



While this may have been already there, they left it and didn't take the 5 minutes to correct (earth cut back)



And to top it all, the cables into their Axiom consumer unit : No gland or grommet, but lots of silicone...




It's not the quality of the brands that matter here, it's the fact that they couldn't be bothered to take even a few minutes to do things vaguely properly....

To be honest, Wago connectors would have been easier and likely quicker that this mess, regardless of what the right way is....

Client doesn't want them back, so now I need to not only sort this crap, but have more floor up to find where the missing permanent live has come loose...

I've worked for bathroom and kitchen fitters and know the pressures on time, etc - but it's still possible to do a job that won't have the next person cursing your contribution to the world....

 

[littlespark]

In this instance, it was the original cooker cable, not a circuit i had to work on... just refitting the hob where it had been previously. Running down to the floor. Just so happened to be in line where two base units met. He was going to screw those little metal right angle brackets to the wall.
Luckily he did ask where the cable might be....

 

[nicebutdim]

It's not always the fault of the kitchen fitter. If the fixing bracket for a wall unit has to go there, it has to go there.
Whenever I've wired a kitchen, I've obtained a copy of the plans, confirmed with the client that these are the final plans, written in stone, and won't be deviated from. then confirmed that again a day or two later. I then design the electrics so that my chases come, as near as possible, to the middle of the gap between where all the unit fixings will be, or at least, well away from them.

Fair point, but most of the kitchens I see are solid backed and fixings don't need to be in an exact spot.

 

[telectrix]

Fair point, but most of the kitchens I see are solid backed and fixings don't need to be in an exact spot.

yous got kitchens in Ireland????? whatever next. flush toilets? ???

 

[nicebutdim]

yous got kitchens in Ireland????? whatever next. flush toilets? ???

Flushed over the back fence...

 

[brianmoooore]

Fair point, but most of the kitchens I see are solid backed and fixings don't need to be in an exact spot.

Base units, maybe, but most wall units have two brackets that fit to the wall 20mm in from the outer edge of the cabinet, and engage with fittings on the cabinet that allow up and down adjustment to position them accurately.

 

[nicebutdim]

Base units, maybe, but most wall units have two brackets that fit to the wall 20mm in from the outer edge of the cabinet, and engage with fittings on the cabinet that allow up and down adjustment to position them accurately.

Most manufacturer's here in NI (big sheds excepted) tend to have solid backed wall units that fit almost flush to the wall. No brackets - just drill through and fix straight to wall.

 

[Dartlec]

Most manufacturer's here in NI (big sheds excepted) tend to have solid backed wall units that fit almost flush to the wall. No brackets - just drill through and fix straight to wall.

I'm sure they're nice when the client calls you in because they've suddenly decided they want under cabinet lights? ?

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm sure they're nice when the client calls you in because they've suddenly decided they want under cabinet lights? ?

It's something that I'm aware of for potential future employment. Some will have sufficient space for 0.75mm, but it's not uncommon to see cables routed inside corner units. Maybe luck might provide a filler at the end of a run of wall units.


Edit: Just looked at my own kitchen. One fed behind filler at end of units, but two fed inside dutch corner unit. Not sure why as there was sufficient space to feed from other end of wall units and then link those two lights.

I'd post some images, but not in the mood to reset forum password to upload from mobile.

 

[Dartlec]

Update on original post:

Sometimes I assume I must have ----ed off the electrical gods in a previous life with the jobs I get.

Finally went back to sort out the original issue today...spent a while looking under floors, assuming it was something the 'electricians' had done (not an unreasonable assumption)

Turned out to be a Fused Spur in the adjacent garage where the fuse had blown....?

Probably put in to satisfy the fan instructions for 5A, even though the circuit is on a 6A MCB....Would have been nice of them to label it though!

So 4-5 hours of diagnosis for what turned out to be a 5 minute fix.....

And then because I'd uncovered the crap job the electricians had done with the junction boxes, I felt I had to fix that before putting the floor back down....

To further add to the amusement - the lighting circuit they switched to their new shiny Axiom CU turns out not to be the one that covers the kitchen at all - and does something we weren't able to identify... Maybe their certificate when it comes through will shed some light, but somehow I doubt it.

But today I saw the Part P notification - completed by an NICEIC Domestic Installer, with an associated certificate number, so the firm in question are apparently happy to put their name to this shambles!

I sorted the junction boxes with proper connectors and junction boxes, but the new downlights had their long 2 core flex running through joists etc back to the junction boxes - so if/when they fail it will be a floor up job to replace them rather than a simple fix from below.

 

[e-spark]

It down to £££££ .How much the client wants to spend and how cheap the sparks can do it for and move onto the next job etc

i give a price if its not acceptable they can get someone else its that easy. as the saying goes anyone can work for nothing.

 

[ipf]

I sorted the junction boxes with proper connectors and junction boxes, but the new downlights had their long 2 core flex running through joists etc back to the junction boxes - so if/when they fail it will be a floor up job to replace them rather than a simple fix from below.

That's a disgusting trait....presuming you mean there's no accessible connection point.

 

[Dartlec]

That's a disgusting trait....presuming you mean there's no accessible connection point.

Correct - only by lifting a carpet and removing floorboards above. Barely even enough slack on the flex on some of them to remove the lights from the ceiling I suspect.

The correct way would have been a wagolite box or similar above each light so they could be easily replaced...and would have cost maybe a whole £10-15 more.

Instead they accessed where the original lights transformers were from above, and ran the 2 core flylead from each light back to that - including through joists...

Since the flylead from the downlights is 2 core, also no chance of an earth connection in the future if replacing with a Class 1 light without running new cabling.

Maybe they thought if they didn't install new cable it couldn't be blamed on them - what they didn't think was how can I leave a job that the next electrician along will look at and think "not bad", which is the minimum I try to achieve at least!

They did apparently quote for a whole replacement CU at £600+, or an additional sub board for £150ish. The existing one is a mess to be fair and £600 was probably a fair price (except that they'd probably have bunged in a Screwfix Special dual RCD at that price)

Then they moved the existing oven, kitchen sockets and 'lighting' onto the new board - except that the lighting they moved isn't for the lights they installed but for something else that I couldn't identify....

Cracking job all round in other words!

 

[Markyd]

name them