Electricity meter running/blinking even with electricity off at the mains

[LonniSet]

I really hope someone can help me.

Last July I got an electricity bill showing an enormous rise in my kwh consumption of about 900% from what it normally is (very low, roughly 500 to 700 khw per year - now almost 4,500 kwh). There is an immersion heater in the flat which is isolated and is certainly not working. There have been no changes in my usage a part from a long time away with the main power OFF (which should have reduced my bills).

I had already spoken to my provider British Gas last January, when after a period of one month away from the flat, and having switched off the main power completely at the consumer unit, I saw a first rise in my projected usage rather than the expected decrease.
I asked them to check the meter, but I was discouraged by the fact that I was told that 'checking the meter might cost up to £1,000 or more' if the fault was not there.

So I left things as they were, used electricity wisely and then the real massive rise came last month. When I contacted BG again, I was told the same thing - checking a meter that is not faulty may cost £1,000 or more.

So I contacted a charitable organisation and with their help I started doing my own testing: using a British Gas monitor consistently showed a daily consumption of a third compared to the meter.
On top of this, I documented that turning off the main switch in my flat did NOT stop the meter from moving forward.
With the mains off the meter keeps on running at a rate of 5 kwh per day and the red light keeps on blinking; it did so even after nine days with the power totally off and I have videos showing exactly that.

I have also done some research and I found out that my meter - a single rate Ampy metering 5235A dated 2007 - is not only old, but also comes from a very unfortunate batch, having given lots of problems to other customers in the past.

Each and every single time I have contacted the provider a new complaint case number has been generated, the case has been restarted and I have not received any answer to my queries yet. You can imagine how frustrating this has been.

Can someone kindly confirm if:

1) My Ampy metering 5235A dated 2007 is indeed obsolte, meaning it is over its certification time? And does it have, like I suspect, a very bad failure rate compared to others?
2) Considered the meter keeps on running even with the mains off and regularly shows readings 3 times as high as the BG monitor, is it reasonable to expect the problem is indeed with the meter?
3) Could it be a problem with the consumer unit instead, sending wrong signals to the meter, and should I call an electrician to verify that before I call the provider to finally come and check the meter?
4) If so, what test should I ask the electrician to perform and can the result be easily reported as a definitive proof that the meter is not working properly?

Many thanks in advance,
Lonni NW6

 

[Lister1987]

I really hope someone can help me.

Last July I got an electricity bill showing an enormous rise in my kwh consumption of about 900% from what it normally is (very low, roughly 500 to 700 khw per year - now almost 4,500 kwh). There is an immersion heater in the flat which is isolated and is certainly not working. There have been no changes in my usage a part from a long time away with the main power OFF (which should have reduced my bills).

I had already spoken to my provider British Gas last January, when after a period of one month away from the flat, and having switched off the main power completely at the consumer unit, I saw a first rise in my projected usage rather than the expected decrease.
I asked them to check the meter, but I was discouraged by the fact that I was told that 'checking the meter might cost up to £1,000 or more' if the fault was not there.

So I left things as they were, used electricity wisely and then the real massive rise came last month. When I contacted BG again, I was told the same thing - checking a meter that is not faulty may cost £1,000 or more.

So I contacted a charitable organisation and with their help I started doing my own testing: using a British Gas monitor consistently showed a daily consumption of a third compared to the meter.
On top of this, I documented that turning off the main switch in my flat did NOT stop the meter from moving forward.
With the mains off the meter keeps on running at a rate of 5 kwh per day and the red light keeps on blinking; it did so even after nine days with the power totally off and I have videos showing exactly that.

I have also done some research and I found out that my meter - a single rate Ampy metering 5235A dated 2007 - is not only old, but also comes from a very unfortunate batch, having given lots of problems to other customers in the past.

Each and every single time I have contacted the provider a new complaint case number has been generated, the case has been restarted and I have not received any answer to my queries yet. You can imagine how frustrating this has been.

Can someone kindly confirm if:

1) My Ampy metering 5235A dated 2007 is indeed obsolte, meaning it is over its certification time? And does it have, like I suspect, a very bad failure rate compared to others?
2) Considered the meter keeps on running even with the mains off and regularly shows readings 3 times as high as the BG monitor, is it reasonable to expect the problem is indeed with the meter?
3) Could it be a problem with the consumer unit instead, sending wrong signals to the meter, and should I call an electrician to verify that before I call the provider to finally come and check the meter?
4) If so, what test should I ask the electrician to perform and can the result be easily reported as a definitive proof that the meter is not working properly?

Many thanks in advance,
Lonni NW6

Hi Lorni,

Citizen's Advice have some guidance here; Check if your energy meter is faulty - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/find-out-if-your-energy-meter-is-faulty/

Not sure there is a way around paying for the check meter if no fault is found. It does give some useful timestamps that ypu may be able to leverage

Uk gov also have the following Electricity meters: independent testing of accuracy - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity-meter-accuracy-disputes

 

[pc1966]

2) Considered the meter keeps on running even with the mains off and regularly shows readings 3 times as high as the BG monitor, is it reasonable to expect the problem is indeed with the meter?

Yes, that is a clear indication something is wrong.

The "running even with the mains off" clearing means something is wrong. Given the usurious charges they talking about if no fault found, I would get an electrician in to inspect the cables and CU (consumer unit = fuse box) to rule out some unknown load / theft of supply, and if they confirm the meter is running with no load then you should have no problem in getting if fixed and hopefully the bills going back corrected.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Agree with the above.
I was going to suggest obtaining a clamp ammeter, and measuring if there is current flowing through the meter with your consumer unit off.
If there is, the meter may not be at fault, but there's a problem with the wiring.
if there is no reading on the clamp ammeter but the electricity meter is showing usage, it's definitely a meter fault.

LAP AC Digital Clamp Meter 600A - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. High accuracy and performance. Non-contact detector for voltage, current and resistance. Includes work light. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Edit ; I thought the Home Display thing shows the data from the meter - how come it shows something different.
Is the meter physically in your flat? Is there confusion over who's meter is who's? Is the meter number on the bill the same as this one?
Sorry you may have done all this - just amazed!

 

[pc1966]

Just to add, if the sparky finds any evidence of a vampire connection taking your electricity then take photographs but do not touch/change it. Get the police involved as it is likely criminal, or at the very least a hangover from a botched conversion (e.g. splitting home in to two flats, etc), and that means potential legal issues to get your bills corrected with the 3rd party rather than the electricity supply company.

 

[snowhead]

There certainly was a problem in the Irish Republic with Ampy 5235a meters,

Dodgy meters hiked hundreds of Irish homes' electricity bills

HUNDREDS of Irish households may have been overcharged on their electricity bills due to faulty meters, it has emerged. But those found to have been hit in the pocket will have to wait months for a…

www.thesun.ie

Is the Electric meter in the flat near the main power switch that you are turning off, or is the meter in a cupboard with meters belonging to other flats?

I think the first step would be to get an electrician in to confirm there are no mysterious other connections between your meter and the consumer unit Main switch, whether they be to your flat or another.
The get the electrician to check as suggested above, that with the power off a clamp ammeter shows no usage, but be forewarned that B.G are likey to argue that a clamp ammeter is not as accurate as a normal suppliers meter.
Following that I'd be tempted to have your own secondary meter fitted, they are similar to suppliers meters and are reasonably priced.

Also I'd consider contacting B.G and informing them that as a result of their refusal to attend and make a simple free check of the meter's accuracy your will be paying for your own checks and if ultimately it's found that the meter is faulty not only will you expect a fair refund of excess metered charges you will also expect a full reimbursement of the costs of your checks.

 

[LonniSet]

There certainly was a problem in the Irish Republic with Ampy 5235a meters,

Dodgy meters hiked hundreds of Irish homes' electricity bills

HUNDREDS of Irish households may have been overcharged on their electricity bills due to faulty meters, it has emerged. But those found to have been hit in the pocket will have to wait months for a…

www.thesun.ie

Is the Electric meter in the flat near the main power switch that you are turning off, or is the meter in a cupboard with meters belonging to other flats?

I think the first step would be to get an electrician in to confirm there are no mysterious other connections between your meter and the consumer unit Main switch, whether they be to your flat or another.
The get the electrician to check as suggested above, that with the power off a clamp ammeter shows no usage, but be forewarned that B.G are likey to argue that a clamp ammeter is not as accurate as a normal suppliers meter.
Following that I'd be tempted to have your own secondary meter fitted, they are similar to suppliers meters and are reasonably priced.

Also I'd consider contacting B.G and informing them that as a result of their refusal to attend and make a simple free check of the meter's accuracy your will be paying for your own checks and if ultimately it's found that the meter is faulty not only will you expect a fair refund of excess metered charges you will also expect a full reimbursement of the costs of your checks.

Thank you! The meter is in a communual area and the paper seals in a nearby cabinet are broken (also been reported).
I have found an almost identical case dating back to 2015 here, which was caused by the (same) meter being faulty: Electricity meter is running after I've turned the electricity off at the mains - Page 8 - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5150242/electricity-meter-is-running-after-ive-turned-the-electricity-off-at-the-mains/p8

 

[LonniSet]

Just to add, if the sparky finds any evidence of a vampire connection taking your electricity then take photographs but do not touch/change it. Get the police involved as it is likely criminal, or at the very least a hangover from a botched conversion (e.g. splitting home in to two flats, etc), and that means potential legal issues to get your bills corrected with the 3rd party rather than the electricity supply company.

Of course...however I have been suggested with the meter running even with power off this is unlikely to be tempering.

 

[LonniSet]

Agree with the above.
I was going to suggest obtaining a clamp ammeter, and measuring if there is current flowing through the meter with your consumer unit off.
If there is, the meter may not be at fault, but there's a problem with the wiring.
if there is no reading on the clamp ammeter but the electricity meter is showing usage, it's definitely a meter fault.

LAP AC Digital Clamp Meter 600A - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. High accuracy and performance. Non-contact detector for voltage, current and resistance. Includes work light. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Edit ; I thought the Home Display thing shows the data from the meter - how come it shows something different.
Is the meter physically in your flat? Is there confusion over who's meter is who's? Is the meter number on the bill the same as this one?
Sorry you may have done all this - just amazed!

The meter is in a communal area, while the monitor is a handheld device I was given by the charity. They plugged in an adaptor in the meter downstairs and the device goes into any plug in the flat. With the mains off it cannot work, but this has been taken into account..
Yes, the situation is absurd but the meter is indeed my meter. In the nearby cabinet there is evidence of some broken seals which have also been reported!

 

[LonniSet]

Hi Lorni,

Citizen's Advice have some guidance here; Check if your energy meter is faulty - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/find-out-if-your-energy-meter-is-faulty/

Not sure there is a way around paying for the check meter if no fault is found. It does give some useful timestamps that ypu may be able to leverage

Uk gov also have the following Electricity meters: independent testing of accuracy - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity-meter-accuracy-disputes

Hi Lister, thank you, I am aware of those links.

 

[LonniSet]

Yes, that is a clear indication something is wrong.

The "running even with the mains off" clearing means something is wrong. Given the usurious charges they talking about if no fault found, I would get an electrician in to inspect the cables and CU (consumer unit = fuse box) to rule out some unknown load / theft of supply, and if they confirm the meter is running with no load then you should have no problem in getting if fixed and hopefully the bills going back corrected.

Hello there, this is what I intend to do if they carry on wasting my time.

 

[LonniSet]

I am posting an additional note in case it's useful to anyone in a similar situation: the whole thing is made more confused by the fact that I - like many more BG customers - was moved from one system (the Classic one) to another (I think it's called New Energy) last April, at exactly the same time where the highest rise was recorded. At that point and in just over 2 months they recorded a jump in consumption of almost 2,000 kwh.
So I suspect there might have been an additional issue with the migration process too, on top of a clear technical mistake.

Now the two systems do not seem to be in touch with each other, and the checking of the two accounts have not been coordinated at all, so it is a real mess.