Emergency Lighting Course

[BigTom83]

Can anybody recommend a Emergency Lighting Course??

Design, testing, maintenance, etc.

Want to get something formal on paper, which is recognised

 

[Engineer54]

Never ceases to amaze me, as to why you now need to do a separate bloody course for every type of building electrical systems....

 

[tazz]

A FIA course will help with design to bs5266...but the install is still down to bs7671.

 

[LeeH]

Never ceases to amaze me, as to why you now need to do a separate bloody course for every type of building electrical systems....

Because you cannot be a master of all in this game IMHO.

 

[Engineer54]

Ah, but if you go on a one or two day course for each of these systems or whatever you can be, ....is that what your saying?? ...Jesus!!

How did we oldies ever get by without all these specialised short courses??

 

[tazz]

Ah, but if you go on a one or two day course for each of these systems or whatever you can be, ....is that what your saying?? ...Jesus!!

How did we oldies ever get by without all these specialised short courses??

Because we read books, and were taught by elders as an apprentice. Something which is sadly dying theses days

 

[Diddy]

I have got to agree with Engineer here. I would go as far as to say if an applicant actually sent in a C.V. to me with some sort of unknown course on it that specialised in something as straight forward as emergency lighting then that C.V. would swiftly find its way to the bin and I would go back to reading real electricians C.V's .......Jut my opinion btw before the course providers and their clients/victims start frothing at the mouth.

 

[dingledong]

But for some older people it's the only way to get the knowledge they require and these courses are making other people lots of money so they say what the learner wants to hear unfortunately do its not the Electrical Trainee fault is it but it does bring the trade down with to many people doing to few jobs

 

[Engineer54]

Because we read books, and were taught by elders as an apprentice. Something which is sadly dying theses days

I get the impression that it's already dead!! lol!!

And that just about sums it all up....

 

[LeeH]

Ah, but if you go on a one or two day course for each of these systems or whatever you can be, ....is that what your saying?? ...Jesus!!

How did we oldies ever get by without all these specialised short courses??

Neither myself it the OP suggested that so don't be a dick all the time.

 

[BigTom83]

You would throw away the CV of anybody who by qualification could demonstrate the ability to design emergency lighting installations and continue to look only at the CVs of people who have no qualification relating to anything other than a apprenticeship in electrical installation. Absurd!!! That will go in my book of legendary comments I have read on this forum.

By your logic I may aswell have got a piece of paper wrote CV on the top and then on the next line wrote electrician. Instead of spending my time doing my apprentiship. What's the point in doing 2391? It's just a price of paper? You learn how to test on the job and during your apprenticeship. So why bother doing it?

Your comment is fundamentally flawed on too many levels.

 

[BigTom83]

Just so there is no confusion, my original post stated 'I wanted to get something formal on paper which is recognised'. I am a qualified electrician, merely looking to get something formal and recognised (ie FIA) on paper to show my ability and improve my knowledge in respect of emergency lighting installations. I'm not talking about how to wire a circuit, more to do with the principles for example the BS says x type of fitting must be placed here with a minimum luminance of x for x minutes. Or the following maintenance schedules must be implemented every 6 months, etc.


Thanks Tazz for your input, I understand that the FIA courses are recognised. Have you been on them are they recommended ??

 

[Engineer54]

Here's your quote....

Because you cannot be a master of all in this game IMHO.

Neither myself it the OP suggested that so don't be a dick all the time.

From one supposed ''dick'' to another....

So what was ''YOU'' actually saying then??

 

[tazz]

To put this in prospective .....it is not an electricians job to enter into design...it is a designers job.
Any project undertaken without a consultant design is asking for trouble

 

[Engineer54]

BigTom 83, it was considered that as a qualified electrician you would be knowledgeable in most of these systems that now seem to qualify as being specialised and warrant some kind of formal qualification after completing a 1 or 2 day course.

You can't really associate C&G 2391/2395 with these one and two day system courses, but by the same token as above, testing and inspection skills, were something that was taught by your elders and mentors as you progressed through your apprenticeship etc. I have no formal inspection and testing certificates from C&G's based on BS7671, but my inspection and testing skills go way beyond those encountered by the majority of electricians holding the above qualifications. Maybe 90% or so of those inspection and testing skills were initially gained during my days as a an apprentice and trainee....

 

[tazz]

Like any project.....somebody has to sign design, install and commission...question is who puts their signiture on each cert.

 

[Badged01]

Like any project.....somebody has to sign design, install and commission...question is who puts their signiture on each cert.

I think thats the key, any 'electrician' I would suggest who has undertaken formal electrical training can be classed as "competant" to install and commission but design an emergency lighting system? Or more importantly, proving "competence" to having designed a system where something has gone wrong!

In a world where litigation is king, some emergency lighting design 'paperwork' goes someway to showing your were trained at some point in emergency lighting design and is the first step to that competancy. And who better than the FIA to get you going on the competancy path ......

 

[Engineer54]

Well i hope no-one here actually expects to become proficient for the design side of things after taking a one or two day course!!

 

[shanky887614]

Well i hope no-one here actually expects to become proficient for the design side of things after taking a one or two day course!!

you would expect a designer to have a hnc/hnd etc in there chosen profession.

all tied together by the architect

 

[Diddy]

You would throw away the CV of anybody who by qualification could demonstrate the ability to design emergency lighting installations and continue to look only at the CVs of people who have no qualification relating to anything other than a apprenticeship in electrical installation. Absurd!!! That will go in my book of legendary comments I have read on this forum.

By your logic I may aswell have got a piece of paper wrote CV on the top and then on the next line wrote electrician. Instead of spending my time doing my apprentiship. What's the point in doing 2391? It's just a price of paper? You learn how to test on the job and during your apprenticeship. So why bother doing it?

Your comment is fundamentally flawed on too many levels.

Just read this reply obviously aimed at my post. As has been stated already I would expect a properly qualified electrician to know about emergency lighting pretty much from the get go. As for T & I as has been pointed out it is "supposed" to be covered during the apprenticeship but the fairly in depth C & G 2391 or modern day equivalent WOULD and does warrant a bit more "respect".
If you/anybody have managed to do a full apprenticeship and then find yourself having to do a course on Emergency Lighting because of your lack of knowledge on the subject.....well in my opinion that beggars belief.
I know some electricians go through apprenticeships where they do a limited scope of work....but some stuff is fundamental imho. Where do you stop ? A course for ring circuits ? An earthing course ? A doorbell course ? I know these are ridiculous suggestions but im just trying to get my point across that when you get that bit of paper that says completed apprenticeship and/or a card that states JIB/SJIB electrician then I would "expect" that to mean a certain all round level of competence and grounding in the job.

 

[LeeH]

If you/anybody have managed to do a full apprenticeship and then find yourself having to do a course on Emergency Lighting because of your lack of knowledge on the subject.....well in my opinion that beggars belief.
I know some electricians go through apprenticeships where they do a limited scope of work....but some stuff is fundamental imho. Where do you stop ? A course for ring circuits ? An earthing course ? A doorbell course ? I know these are ridiculous suggestions but im just trying to get my point across that when you get that bit of paper that says completed apprenticeship and/or a card that states JIB/SJIB electrician then I would "expect" that to mean a certain all round level of competence and grounding in the job.

My first 10 years of my employment was for a company installing life support systems for the aquatic industry. Places like the London aquarium, and many other exhibits in the UK, Europe and Asia. This involved the installation of the plant, process and control, instrumentation etc. Oddly enough EM lighting was never in my remit. And another 10 years on it still isn't. I'm ok with door bells though....

If that made me incompetent, which you are suggesting then so be it. But maybe that's a little narrow minded IMO.

Of course, everybody has (I hope) the basics of how and when in regards to EM lighting but if you are responsible for it in a project, a few days training cannot be a bad thing can it?

Not picking a fight here buddy, but unless you've walked a mile in another mans shoes just take a moment to think before placing somebody in the incompetent bracket.

 

[Tiny Spark]

Ive said this before and i will no doubt again.
But there are many types of electricians out there.

Domestic, industrial, control, maintenance, lighting etc etc etc.

To assume everyone knows everything is ridiculous.

What I know about e lights i learnt from my apprenticeship in a large factory as part of the maintenance team.

I dont recall it being covered by C&G in any depth, or possibly even at all.

Now if I had been on say a service engineers apprenticeship i would probably never touch a E light, but I could probably make my way through a control panel fault caused by some PLC problem.

Which by the way I personally couldnt do.

So with that in mind which one of us would be incompetent?

Are we both incompetent?

I dont know....

 

[LeeH]

Maybe we wouldn't make an idiot between the pair of us?

 

[Tiny Spark]

Ermmm many idiots make light work...

Or was it hands....

I dont know the answer to that one either

 

[shanky887614]

Ive said this before and i will no doubt again.
But there are many types of electricians out there.

Domestic, industrial, control, maintenance, lighting etc etc etc.

To assume everyone knows everything is ridiculous.

What I know about e lights i learnt from my apprenticeship in a large factory as part of the maintenance team.

I dont recall it being covered by C&G in any depth, or possibly even at all.

Now if I had been on say a service engineers apprenticeship i would probably never touch a E light, but I could probably make my way through a control panel fault caused by some PLC problem.

Which by the way I personally couldnt do.

So with that in mind which one of us would be incompetent?

Are we both incompetent?

I dont know....

im part of a controls company but we do the odd bit of domestic and comercial as well

 

[Tiny Spark]

im part of a controls company but we do the odd bit of domestic and comercial as well

Well thats good, variety is the spice of life after all.

God damn ime full of em today lol