Energy supplier refusing to connect up new PME supply?

[The General]

Afternoon all.

Just had a weird one and was wondering if there was some regulation that I'm not aware of or if I've missed something stupid....

The DNO have brought in a new PME supply to a purpose built (permanent) shed in a field where there is going to be a new build domestic property later in the year.
I've installed a very simple 2-way C/Unit connected to a double socket so that builders can plug in tools/chargers etc while they are working on site. It's got a 30mA RCD running to 25mm tails and 16mm earth which I left coiled in the supply box with my dead test results certificate ready for EDF to come and fit the meter.

Unfortunately I wasn't within phone signal at the time, but the customer told me that EDF arrived today to put the meter in, and then announced that they couldn't connect up the supply "because there was no earth rod"!? He refused to install the meter, despite the customer pointing out the PME sticker on the cut-out, and they will not come back until I've installed a rod and connected it to the MET.

What did I miss?!?! Or was he just a complete idiot?

 

[westward10]

He might be working to the 18th Ed already. Is it out in the sticks and far away.

 

[Pete999]

Afternoon all.

Just had a weird one and was wondering if there was some regulation that I'm not aware of or if I've missed something stupid....

The DNO have brought in a new PME supply to a purpose built (permanent) shed in a field where there is going to be a new build domestic property later in the year.
I've installed a very simple 2-way C/Unit connected to a double socket so that builders can plug in tools/chargers etc while they are working on site. It's got a 30mA RCD running to 25mm tails and 16mm earth which I left coiled in the supply box with my dead test results certificate ready for EDF to come and fit the meter.

Unfortunately I wasn't within phone signal at the time, but the customer told me that EDF arrived today to put the meter in, and then announced that they couldn't connect up the supply "because there was no earth rod"!? He refused to install the meter, despite the customer pointing out the PME sticker on the cut-out, and they will not come back until I've installed a rod and connected it to the MET.

What did I miss?!?! Or was he just a complete idiot?

Meter Man = Jobsworth methinks

 

[The General]

He might be working to the 18th Ed already. Is it out in the sticks and far away.

West Country, but not exactly the middle of nowhere...

 

[Wilko]

They work in mysterious ways their miracles to perform ...
I have seen the end result of this before, where DNO has required TT. Farm and a builders supply both seem to be triggers.
Edit : if they think it's a construction site then Section 704 may be relevant and 704.411.3.1 warns off using PME. Just a thought

 

[The General]

They work in mysterious ways their miracles to perform ...
I have seen the end result of this before, where DNO has required TT. Farm and a builders supply both seem to be triggers.

Yeah, I could understand it if it was the DNO refusing to put in a PME, but when the DNO HAVE put in a supply and it's the energy supplier refusing to connect to it, my mind boggles!

 

[westward10]

Are they saying no PME without a rod or no PME full stop and use a rod.

 

[The General]

Are they saying no PME without a rod or no PME full stop and use a rod.

They want me to install a rod, and then they'll send someone back out to connect up a meter.....I guess they will just connect the L&N tails and leave my nice 16mm earth floating around in the meter box ;-)

 

[westward10]

Can you manage a loop on the line and neutral.

 

[The General]

Can you manage a loop on the line and neutral.

Sorry, you've lost me there.....still (relatively) new at this.....

 

[HandySparks]

Likely to be considering the requirements of section 704, Construction Sites. 704.411.3.1 says that PME shall not be used for the means of earthing for constrcution sites unless...

So set it up as TT, then change over to TN-C-S when the building's finished.

 

[westward10]

Delete.

 

[westward10]

Likely to be considering the requirements of section 704, Construction Sites. 704.411.3.1 says that PME shall not be used for the means of earthing for constrcution sites unless...

So set it up as TT, then change over to TN-C-S when the building's finished.

Good point wasn't thinking of a construction site.

 

[The General]

Likely to be considering the requirements of section 704, Construction Sites. 704.411.3.1 says that PME shall not be used for the means of earthing for constrcution sites unless...

So set it up as TT, then change over to TN-C-S when the building's finished.

Sounds likely - I did wonder if I might have missed something specific about building sites, but in my head this wasn't really a construction site it's just a very very small house, in a field, with only one socket...

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

 

[Octopus]

I'm surprised that the person who ordered the install wasn't told if this requirement.

It's the norm!

 

[LankyWill]

I had the same thing last summer on a small site, luckily he fitted the meter whilst I ran out to the wholesales for a rod. Got back and he left as soon as I got out the van with the rod In toe.

 

[Des 56]

Seems like its a lesson learned for you thanks to a meter fitter

He knew the regulations better than the installer
Before making protest its best to be sure of your argument before hand

 

[Leesparkykent]

TBF the meter installer was correct as it's a construction site......I hate EDF with a passion so advise all my customers no to use them and tell them to use EON or British gas. These two install isolators to which you can self connect to. EDF are so far up their own backside that they think they're above and beyond fitting an isolator and would rather walk off site, charging you for an extra visit, whilst telling the customer how wrong you were by not installing the rod etc.....

 

[Percyprod]

I worked.for the local board in Cumbria, a temporary supply is not allowed to use one earth, you have to fit a rod and RCD. Same applies to caravans, agricultural buildings etc.

 

[static zap]

..... a construction site it's just a very very small house, in a field, with only one socket...

You've missed the large puddle of muddy "standing" water !

 

[Percyprod]

I used to work for DNO, pme cannot be used on temporary supply, the meter fitter was correct. Rod and rcd required.

 

[kingeri]

TBF the meter installer was correct as it's a construction site......I hate EDF with a passion so advise all my customers no to use them and tell them to use EON or British gas. These two install isolators to which you can self connect to. EDF are so far up their own backside that they think they're above and beyond fitting an isolator and would rather walk off site, charging you for an extra visit, whilst telling the customer how wrong you were by not installing the rod etc.....

My grandma was having a new meter fitted a couple of years ago by EDF and they wouldn't do it cos she didn't have any certificates for her installation. I didn't really get it at the time. In the end I did an EICR and they then fitted the meter..

 

[bigspark17]

I worked.for the local board in Cumbria, a temporary supply is not allowed to use one earth, you have to fit a rod and RCD. Same applies to caravans, agricultural buildings etc.

Do you mean DNO earth not "one" earth...

 

[Sparkingmad]

I had a similar not PME but TNS on static caravan park. DNO was happy for me to use their earth in my substation. Earthing all metal enclosures etc to their earth with all outgoing swa's to individual caravans connected to 100mA time delayed rcd's out to the caravans connected to their own 30mA rcds and earth rodded individually. Meter guy turned up connected all his stuff up refused to connect our 150mm tails removed our earth and took the SEB fuses away with him. Phoned me up to say that he wanted the whole installation on a 30mA rcd and on a TT system. After I got up off the floor I asked him for a contact number higher up I could speak to. Reluctantly he gave it to me and to my surprise the Bloke I spoke to said no we will not connect you unless you do as we demand. I quoted the regs saying that TNS is acceptable earthing arrangement and that I can use it to provide earthing all the way to caravans if I wanted, but was only using to provide protection to all equipment enclosed in the substation with 100mA rcd protection on all cables leaving substation to supply the caravans which were connected to their own earth mat. Each caravan is protected by 30mA rcds internally.
No we want the complete installation on TT system with 30mA RCD! After I called him an idiot and ---- I was left trying to get a 300A 3phase adjustable rcd and fibre glass enclosure.
Finally got one a week later set it all up to 30mA got meter man back out got supply connected took the meter man to one of the caravans. Locked up the substation and got him to witness as I carried out rcd test. First test rcd tripped at board as expected oh dear we don't have any electric could you go back to the substation and turn on the main rcd please. So off he went muttering then came back Doors locked! Oh that's right here take the key. Every test operated the main rcd. When he came back I said now imagine this scenario it's 11pm this key is locked away in the reception key safe, this caravan is protected by 30mA rcd the cables supplying this caravan are protected by 100mA time delayed RCD to afford discrimination as per requirements of BS7671 and you bankers have now got 8 all electric static homes plus a sewage pumping station all protected by 300A 30mA RCD. If a caravan trips the rcd everything goes off now are you or your boss going to come out and reset it every time?
Needless to say a call to niceic was made and official complaint lodged against the energy supplier and the rcd was tweaked up to 2A tripping current .

 

[Wilko]

Sorry to hear that !
While I may not have fully understood all aspects, it's a schoolboy error to put 30mA RCDs in series l'd have thought? Bad enough to see this poor design domestically with house and their shed boards, but these guys take the biscuit.