UK English rental EICRs query...

[NDG Elecs]

Hi all...

I have heard that mandatory EICRs in England (and Wales (?)) may be coming into force this summer.
A letting agent I do a fair bit of work for posed a question just now that I didn't know the answer for.. They asked if a satisfactory EIC has been issued (say for a board change), then would this supersede the need for an EICR... I guess without knowing the wording of the final legislation it is hard to say. I said that if someone bought a brand spanking new new-build it would seem daft to have to have an EICR too... Especially if the new build owners actually received an EIC!! Many don't seem to!

And yes I do realise that many new builds would possibly benefit from an EICR being carried out due to the state I have seen some in

Is there anything in BS7671 that states an EIC may in certain circumstances supersede an EICR.... Thoughts welcomed..

And roll on the proliferation of drive by EICR companies...oh the joy...!!

 

[Risteard]

An Electrical Installation Certificate does not report on the condition of an existing installation, but merely certifies any relevant installation work carried out. As such it has no bearing on the upcoming requirement (in England only?) for an EICR to be produced.

 

[radiohead]

I think it could for a board change. It is a requirement that circuits connected to the new board are tested and inspected for safety and compliance. As long as the EIC clearly stated that an equivalent level of test and inspection was carried out as part of the work then I see no reason why an EIC could not replace an EICR. Clearly it would not if the work carried out did not involve all circuits. Code 3 defects not addressed could be listed in the comments on the existing installation, with a note that no defects which affect the continued safe use of the installation were recorded during the inspection.

 

[ipf]

'Mandatory EICR's'? Sounds good....but who's going to police it all.
Just look at Part P. It's not exactly 'cleaned up' the domestic sector, as intended (or hoped), more like helped the money making 'charities'. Nothing will change much, IMO.

 

[Risteard]

I think it could for a board change. It is a requirement that circuits connected to the new board are tested and inspected for safety and compliance. As long as the EIC clearly stated that an equivalent level of test and inspection was carried out as part of the work then I see no reason why an EIC could not replace an EICR. Clearly it would not if the work carried out did not involve all circuits. Code 3 defects not addressed could be listed in the comments on the existing installation, with a note that no defects which affect the continued safe use of the installation were recorded during the inspection.

I disagree. The inspection and testing for the DB change is essentially verifying that ADS will operate, i.e. that the new work will not impair the safety of the existing installation, and that the existing installation will not impair the safety of the new work. It isn't reporting on the condition of the existing installation, save a couple of comments perhaps in the "Comments on Existing Installation" box.

 

[NDG Elecs]

An Electrical Installation Certificate does not report on the condition of an existing installation, but merely certifies any relevant installation work carried out. As such it has no bearing on the upcoming requirement (in England only?) for an EICR to be produced.

I hear what you are saying but a board change would have all the relevant test information. It may not have the same level/depth of inspection as an EICR granted.
In the case of a full rewire I would hope an EIC supercedes the need for a EICR though..guess it's a case of watch this space...

 

[snowhead]

It's unlikely that legislation, which is already difficult enough to write without loopholes, would be written making EICR mandatory but then allow EIC under varying conditions.

What if there are 2 or more D.B / C.U and only 1 was replaced with an E.I.C issued for that.

 

[ipf]

I hear what you are saying but a board change would have all the relevant test information. It may not have the same level/depth of inspection as an EICR granted.
In the case of a full rewire I would hope an EIC supercedes the need for a EICR though..guess it's a case of watch this space...

But an EIC has a great deal more depth of inspection than an EICR.
As regards a board change, it all depends on the client and how far they're prepared to go, paying for the extra time testing the full installation. Basically, from our point of view, it's a matter of an EICR for that and then a completion certificate for the board, incorporating the EICR details and noting such.

 

[radiohead]

I disagree. The inspection and testing for the DB change is essentially verifying that ADS will operate, i.e. that the new work will not impair the safety of the existing installation, and that the existing installation will not impair the safety of the new work. It isn't reporting on the condition of the existing installation, save a couple of comments perhaps in the "Comments on Existing Installation" box.

You are correct that an EIC is not reporting on the condition of an existing installation, but if the EIC states that an equivalent level of testing and inspection was carried out following a board change and that no issues were identified that would render the installation unsafe for continued use then I see no reason why it should not meet the requirement for certification prior to letting. This does strike a chord with me, only last week following an EICR on a property with 24 circuits and all the time form filling, the client asked for a board change to remedy the only issue (lack of RCD protection) which meant another long session of circuit schedule filling on the EIC which was now different to the EICR schedule. Just a complete waste of time and paper. I told him before the EICR that a board change would be required to bring it up to current standards....(which he had stated as his intention). Clearly though if an EIC was officially permitted prior to letting then this would be open to abuse, a landlord could have a socket installed and wave the EIC in the face of the authorities as evidence that the entire installation has been inspected. So it wont happen, but in a common sense world it could work. But we dont live in a common sense world

 

[Pretty Mouth]

'Mandatory EICR's'? Sounds good....but who's going to police it all.
Just look at Part P. It's not exactly 'cleaned up' the domestic sector, as intended (or hoped), more like helped the money making 'charities'. Nothing will change much, IMO.

Letting agents will I expect, they seem quite keen to get gas inspections sorted on time every year in my experience. I presume they bear some responsibility if anything goes wrong.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Letting agents will I expect, they seem quite keen to get gas inspections sorted on time every year in my experience. I presume they bear some responsibility if anything goes wrong.

Indeed. The letting agent I do stuff for are very keen on making sure the various properties are half decent. Despite not being a legal requirement up to now I have been carrying out EICRs for a good five years at their request.
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It's unlikely that legislation, which is already difficult enough to write without loopholes, would be written making EICR mandatory but then allow EIC under varying conditions.

What if there are 2 or more D.B / C.U and only 1 was replaced with an E.I.C issued for that.

The legislation may quote the regs "safe for continued use" line... In my eye if there is a document pertaining to the installation that says the installation is considered safe to use until the next recommended inspection date, then I do not see why the legislation cannot reflect that.

If there were two DBs then one EIC and one EICR perhaps. I don't fully think the extra expense and time is justifiable to require an EICR on a installation that has been 'signed off' as being in a satisfactory condition..

 

[Des 56]

These proposals are England only and will follow the Scottish model in a phased introduction (when parliamentary time permits and which could be a long haul given EU business clogging up the works) Wales has nothing in the pipeline
As for when EICs are available,heres the proposal as of last year

In the case of new and fully rewired properties, an Electrical Installation Certificate can be provided instead of an EICR as long as the date of the next inspection indicated on the certificate has not elapsed.

 

[NDG Elecs]

These proposals are England only and will follow the Scottish model in a phased introduction (when parliamentary time permits and which could be a long haul given EU business clogging up the works) Wales has nothing in the pipeline
As for when EICs are available,heres the proposal as of last year

In the case of new and fully rewired properties, an Electrical Installation Certificate can be provided instead of an EICR as long as the date of the next inspection indicated on the certificate has not elapsed.

Interesting, thanks Des. So looks like full rewires only then as an alternative...

 

[Andy78]

I had a call before Christmas from a student letting agent desperate for eicrs to satisfy council HMO requirements.
All properties had been recently renovated with CU swaps and accompanying EIC.
Not good enough though, inspections required.

I imagine it will be similarly regarded.