Estimating labour and materials on large new build contracts

[danhod1]

Hi All

My companys turnover has rapidy increased over the last 6 years and we have steadily grown from 2 ( buisness partners) to 25 sparks. We have been trading as a labour only subbie using the Lukins installation times guide and Excel to tender and win various contracts.
The company we are doing alot of our work for now want us to go down the labour and materials route and we have purchased Exreme estimating software from luckins its a bit hard to use but after the training day in 2 weeks hopefully it will speed up the tendering process.

But as I am going through the tendering process there are a couple of things that worry me about supplying the materials.

1 Is there an industry standard mark up for waste on materials ?
2 The containment drawings are not co-ordinated I am working on 30 % additional sets to the flat ones shown on the drawings is there also an industry standard for that ?
3 Copper prices have been rising rapidly and Im worried about loosing out if the price goes up after I sign the contract . Could a PC sum be the answer ?

Thanks in advance

 

[bugsy]

1 Not that Im aware of
2 contract containment drwgs should indicated exactly what your required to supply and install , no more no less anything else req's a variation order or site insrtuction either should be priced submitted and agreed before you commence ( although the cost would be based on your schedule of rates unless star rated)
3 Get a quotation from your supplier valid for six months pro rata this into your tender submission

 

[danhod1]

Thanks Bugsy
3 I spoke with my wholesaler ( edmunsons) he said they would only keep the copper price for 1 week on the submains although I will definately ask him about the singles and T & E

 

[danhod1]

Bugsy

Do you know if there is a percentage I can use for sundries/consumables ?
Ie nuts bolts washers rawl plugs screws bushes couplers etc ?

 

[bugsy]

I normally add .5% for this but when you price the metre rate for conduit, trunking etc this would be included ( ie box rate to include bush and lock nut / ring trunking is supplied with screws / nuts , bolts deemed inc in metre rate . what you need to up your rates for is working at high level etc . in your mark up on materials you need to allow for trips to site store to collect and get to work area, off loading, checking and verifying supply chain (if iso 9002)
dont forget to allow for as installed drawings testing and verification which you should include in your rates schedule ( all these modules should be in your estimating package ) you should be able to break all these items down and adjust rates accordingly

 

[Voltimax]

I can answer your first question, it's 15%
Now I have a question. How do you get on with the Luckins guide? Do you find it accurate or have you had to adjust it at all?

 

[mogga]

mind factor in Inductions for every guy working on / visiting site as some inductions can last 4 hrs

For that and things like ordering checking ect of supplies put a provisianal sum in under title " set up works" charge as a one off possably list what this sume is for
for drawings manuals ect do the same under drawings
Mind when putting in your quote put in writing your cable price is variable as per supplly Someone at a very large firm forgot this when they priced for a wind turbine job and net result was £50K loss as cable prices rose during the time taken between quote submission and go ahead for job

 

[danhod1]

Voltimax

I find that the Lukins times guide is sometimes quite "generous" and we have adjusted some times ie 50mm tray including a trapeze bracket was working out expensive so we trimmed it down but I have also won alot of jobs using it.
I usually try and get some feedback from the engineers regarding my competitors tenders and the labour rate I am using seems to be the right one for the current economic climate.
As for the Estimation package that lists materials cost it just gives you the manufacturers prices which is sky high against the price I pay after the wholesalers discount for example
3M 750mm ladder rack Legrand price given in luckins £249 58 % dicount £94.50 so if your quoting jobs using the data base your not going to win anything but applying the discount data seems easy enough.
15 % is that purely for waste ? So my mark up on materials would be 15 % waste 3% retention and then a % for profit ?

 

[Voltimax]

I'll tell you where I got the 15% waste from. It was from a book I bought when I first went self employed on quantity surveying. In the electrical section of the book the examples always allowed 15% for waste on cable.

I have been using the free electrika software lately, but some years ago I bought an estimating package from SEC. As old as it is, it's better than electrika, but I can't use it due to compatibility issues with windows 7. Estimating software always include trade prices, which are through the roof, trouble is that it takes time to keep updating your prices/discounts. I've found I had to make a local database with electrika because although there's a facility to enter wholesalers discounts, none of them seem to know or are interested in setting them up for you.
I assume your excel spreadsheet was a whole lot more simplified and only had items with just the labour times, so it didn't need updating.

 

[danhod1]

Yes Excel was alot easier and it was as you say just a case of building the template then adding the items and new tenders we could just copy and paste to make the new templates from job to job.
However the Lukins estimating software doesnt seem anywhere as user friendly although its sold as based on windows software ! Hopefully when I go on the training course its going to bring me up to speed although I will still have to input the discounts myself.