Excluding 4mm circuits on EICR, dodgy certs?

[n180]

4mm T&E circuits on 32amp breaker. Parts of the circuit run through ceiling, parts through trunking and possibly even the wall.

Current carrying capacity won't exceed 30amp.

Customer adamant they are fine because previous electricians have said they are fine.

What do you do? Tell him tough and give him unsatisfactory?

Or is it possible to exclude those circuits in the section "extent covered by this EICR", and give him satisfactory? Would this be legal? Granted it's not what we should do but to keep a relatively regular and good paying customer can we shove responsibility for these 4mm circuits onto him by excluding them from our reports?

Thanks.

 

[bill01803]

Just tell him it is not up to the job and it needs upgrading. You don’t need customers telling you what you should do

 

[pc1966]

I don't think you can exclude a circuit because you believe it to be a problem - that goes against the whole point of an EICR!

Certainly 32A on 4mm is marginal, only really supported for clipped direct 'method C' or similar. What is it feeding, enough sockets that could overload it or some fixed loads that would not?

For an existing circuit with years of use then without any evidence of thermal stress or clear cause to doubt it then C3 might be the most appropriate grading. Replacing the MCB with 25A would be a simple fix, assuming the load(s) allow it.

 

[rewireIT]

I know it not being clipped direct technically doesn't rate it properly but in reality i think it's fine.

Every property in the UK has upstairs lighting on 1mm run through 100mm or more of fibreglass and i never hear of it causing problems.

 

[Risteard]

I know it not being clipped direct technically doesn't rate it properly but in reality i think it's fine.

Every property in the UK has upstairs lighting on 1mm run through 100mm or more of fibreglass and i never hear of it causing problems.

1mm^2 isn't even sold here. It's the norm in England perhaps, but stating "every property" really isn't true.

 

[pc1966]

Until recently (18th AM2) 1mm T&E was only to be used for light circuits, power circuits had to be a minimum of 1.5mm (ignoring aluminium wire...) even if 1mm would suffice. But 1mm CPCs are the norm for 1mm & 1.5mm T&E and used to be seen on 2.5mm as well. With MCBs I think that is about the minimum to meet adiabatic anyway.

But for domestic light circuits those are normally on 6A breakers and given that 1mm T&E (70C PVC) is rated at least 8A CCC even for method 103 (surrounded by insulation in stud wall, etc) there is really no issue with it at all.

 

[suffolkspark]

4mm T&E circuits on 32amp breaker. Parts of the circuit run through ceiling, parts through trunking and possibly even the wall.

Current carrying capacity won't exceed 30amp.

Customer adamant they are fine because previous electricians have said they are fine.

What do you do? Tell him tough and give him unsatisfactory?

Or is it possible to exclude those circuits in the section "extent covered by this EICR", and give him satisfactory? Would this be legal? Granted it's not what we should do but to keep a relatively regular and good paying customer can we shove responsibility for these 4mm circuits onto him by excluding them from our reports?

Thanks.

Stick to your guns, he doesnt have to have it rectified thats up to him