external temporary lighting

babylon5 · Nov 29, 2013

looking at putting out some external Christmas lighting. I have bought 2 rcd plugs, 2 twinsockets with weatherproof housing boxes. I know its a silly question but as I say its temporary lighting and im trying to be as safe as possible and its been a good few years since I was last at school thus my old physics knowledge is a bit rusty, would I be able to use 300/500v pond cabling with the 230/240 devices? I know and yes my initial answer would be no but am thinking perhaps its stated 300/500v because its being identified as for pumps and that's why they stated the voltage and 230 may be possible but then i thought perhaps it wont overome the resistance (lol i said i was rusty) so it basically comes down to my rusty science knowledge. Not used it since school and If in doubt, it's best to ask

. I could have avoided the embarrassment of asking this and just gone and got some 230/240 rated cabling but then theres buying conduit or what would economically be best to use?
.have allready read about using twin and earth or armoured. mention also of rubber insulation which led me to pond cabling. well just a question. cheers guys.

HandySparks · Nov 29, 2013

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.

The voltage ratings are just the maximum permissible from core to earth and between cores. This is based on the electrical performance of the insulation. So 300/500V will do just fine. In fact, you probably shouldn't be using any cable rated at less than 300V for mains wiring.

As to which type of cable to use and whether it requires any additional mechanical protection, that depends entirely on the location and route of the cable. You may be best getting a local electrician round to see the job first hand.

babylon5 · Nov 30, 2013

That's brilliant thanks HandySparks. It is temporary and only for Christmas. i'm anticipating 1530-2330 each night. they will be secured to front of house. the animated decoration leads wont extend to where id like to place them on front of house and being a little concerned in case of fire, I decided to buy the external boxes x2 with twin sockets and 2 rcds. ill extend them through upstairs small top windows but secure them tall stepladder height against house front mid-height so will reach to each corner (detached house). there's full instructions for fitting the boxes-though not easy, i'm fairly happy at taking my time and doing it.
just glad i won't need to buy more cabling. many, many thanks. I know its early but have a Merry Christmas, cheers. It is temporary-if it was a fixed, I wouldn't bat an eyelid at getting an electrician in. its my trying to be safe which has led to this instead of just using rcds and extension leads. possibility of rain concerns me.

Thankyou for welcome too. I'm grateful

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

Eek, i have put the lights and setup together and no problems with it but due to circumstances that i need to be out the house on a particular day, each week have bought some electrical timers
. Well i bet you all ready know what i'm about to say. The rcds i think are stopping the timers. What i have found early look is that on first setting up the timer needs to be set to come on in a period when i first set the timer to come on, ie i set the timer say to 1530-2330- i need to initiate it after 1530, say 1545. This morning i did a quick on/off check using this principle and it was fine but i have a feeling it's not going to reactivate tonight(am at work).

perhaps someone's going to tell me it will but the click it made at the socket when it switched off is telling me it won't so BEARING in mind my lights are external BUT i've fitted an external power box but with loose cable not them white plastic surround things, would i be safe in going without the rcds and just using the timers. If not, i'll either keep the lights on for 24 h or flipside not on at all that day.

(I'm wondering are Christmas Lights Fires that prevelant or is it blown out of proportion...i've all ready spent against the risk but now needs must and am wondering??)

advice appreciated. Im looking to run them 1530-2330 each night approx. maybe even till 2300 to avoid maybe overexubberent revellers just in case but as i say 1 night i cant get home each week.

(Can we post images on this forum? I'll post one of the lights and boxes for info if it's possible)

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

my first query is ..... is the circuit from which you are supplying the outdoor sockets RCD protected? if so, then you don't need RCD plugs outside.

ifindoubtdont · Dec 10, 2013

From what you have said I assume you have bought a plug in RCD, the type that you plug your electric lawnmower into. If so you may have plugged it all in in the wrong order. Plug in RCD's need power to make them hold. Try timer into RCD then RCD into socket not the other way round.

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

ifindoubtdont said:
From what you have said I assume you have bought a plug in RCD, the type that you plug your electric lawnmower into. If so you may have plugged it all in in the wrong order. Plug in RCD's need power to make them hold. Try timer into RCD then RCD into socket not the other way round.

Indeed i did. You Sir/ Madam, are a star!! Wish i'd bought them all together and i may have reasoned it out. Was too much into trying to think of , 'What Nexts'. Thanks. A simple solution is often the best. Dont even have to try it. Thanks

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

you have not answered my post. is the circuit in the house RCD protected at the CU? if so, you don't need additional RCDs.

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

Was a - purchase timers, go home, unplug combined plugs , plug in timer, plug in rcd plus plug...lol...ah well, live and learn, lol

.... Again, thanks and yup telectrix, my rcds are inside, and plug powers the external socket (boxed)

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Yup it is

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

Cant remember the term for it but its a within the last 5 years consumer unit

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

so. if the CU has RCD protection for the circuit, why add additional RCDs?

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

My uncle's company installed the Consumer Unit

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Simply because i was trying to be safe and thought 'oo christmas lights, stories of fires, etc' and then 'rcd plugs'..kinda bypassed the 'oh my house has a 17th edition CU.' lol

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

so if it's an up to date consumer unit, with RCDs fitted, ditch the plug-in RCds. they're not required.

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

What is the term for them at the CU?? If there isnt then the answer's actually no but i think it goes by another name at the CUright?

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Yup, to the recent standards

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

It's got the xxxxxxx master shut off on the CU aswell as the normal. Lol sorry im not an electrician as you can tell. Wish i was at home and id just read it off but yup its an upto date one unless theres been very recent changes

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

Yup it's 17th edition

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

if the CU has been installed since 2008, then it will have either 2 RCDs ( the trip thingies with test buttons), or several RCBOs ( same thing but each one dedicated to 1 circuit). if so, then having the additional RCDs is like when driving, using the footbrake and then pulling the handbrake on.

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

You guys are great. Can only give you a thanks i'm afraid. If i was to see you on the streets, i owe you a beer or your favourite tipple, both of you. cheers guys

Ah, i get where the external bit about rcd now. Two quick things...my external box for the sockets should mean im ok for outside, i take it and also are there still a lot of houses with old fuse boxes (is there a national update reg( just out of interest?))

telectrix · Dec 10, 2013

still loads of houses with old fuse boards, no RCDs. there is no law or regulation that mandates these be upgraded. current regs apply only to new work inasmuch as anything done now has to comply with current regs.

babylon5 · Dec 10, 2013

Sounds a bit silly there being no regs about getting all houses up to scratch by the year xxyz....lol other than the obvious, how's this different to the digital tv switchover other than this is more likely to save lives. I suppose as new houses are built the old ones are demolished but lol that will take quite a while to achieve anywhere near 90% i imagine let alone 100.
Thanks for all your advice. It really is appreciated. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas