Fault on kitchen ring

[TheCodboy]

Hi all. Had a phone call about a tripping RCD. The customer had narrowed it down to the kitchen ring. When I go there,it was indeed the kitchen ring causing the tripping. Firstly checked the usual,nothing plugged in to any of the sockets. Checked the connections at the sockets,these were all fine. Checked end to ends,had continuity on L,N & E. Carried out IR between LN & E at 250v,very low reading,virtually zero. Also tested L-E N-E & L-N. All very low. Now,the cables in the kitchen are red/black and the cables at the board are Brown/Blue. There no sign of any crimps etc at the board (which by the way is a total mess). So I’m thinking hidden joints/jb could be the source of the problem?? Any pointers would be appreciated!

 

[TheCodboy]

I wish I’d taken a picture when I was there. There’s a good chance the best advice I would have been given is to just get back in the van and drive away!!

 

[Toneyz]

There is many a job that we would like to do that, but this is part of being an electrician this is what we are trained to do.

 

[TheCodboy]

There is many a job that we would like to do that, but this is part of being an electrician this is what we are trained to do.

I’ve got a feeling that there’s a big adaptable box somewhere,with a birds nest of jointed cables in it.

 

[Pete999]

From what I understand,it has been one delightful diy find after another since they bought the house.

Makes you wonder if the customer is telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth, since he was the one who pointed to the Kitchen RFC in the first place.

 

[Midwest]

Hence my approach of put new in,save myself hassle and time. The entire install is a mess.

I don't see why the OP is getting some hard time on this approach.

If it's quicker & less costly to rewire the RFC, I would do the same. He could spend the time locating the fault (or not), but it also might leave some poor joint or other unseen poor installation. Least he can leave it this way, in the knowledge that it as near perfect as he can achieve.

 

[TheCodboy]

Makes you wonder if the customer is telling you the whole truth and nothing but the truth, since he was the one who pointed to the Kitchen RFC in the first place.

Well how he came to the conclusion is the way we would. Knocked all the mcb’s off then turned back on one at a time till he found the one that tripped. Or at least that’s what he told me!!

 

[Octopus]

I don't see why the OP is getting some hard time on this approach.

We all know that randomly replacing parts isn't a good idea ... and if there are really only 3 sockets identifying where the break is shouldn't take long ............. 2 radials anyone?

 

[TheCodboy]

I don't see why the OP is getting some hard time on this approach.

If it's quicker & less costly to rewire the RFC, I would do the same. He could spend the time locating the fault (or not), but it also might leave some poor joint or other unseen poor installation. Least he can leave it this way, in the knowledge that it as near perfect as he can achieve.

Thanks for the support in my approach. Obviously in an ideal world,locating the fault would be great,but in this instance I just think it’s easier to put new in.

 

[Midwest]

We all know that randomly replacing parts isn't a good idea ... and if there are really only 3 sockets identifying where the break is shouldn't take long ............. 2 radials anyone?

We could all spend our time amusing ourselves, but if new is the cheaper and more thorough option, then its the only option.

In any case, we are just armchair critics; the OP's been onsite & is best placed to make that decision.

 

[Toneyz]

I am still awaiting the OP to say where the fault is? assuming he has located the leg which has the fault.

 

[TheCodboy]

I am still awaiting the OP to say where the fault is? assuming he has located the leg which has the fault.

I am still awaiting the OP to say where the fault is? assuming he has located the leg which has the fault.

Once I IR tested it,and it came back with a virtually zero reading,I didn’t split it and investigate any more. Again,looking at the state of the current install,to me it would be better to just put new in. The customer only wants 3 sockets. 2 of which I can drill straight through from the garage and the other straight through a void in the floor. Then when done,I can rest easy in the knowledge that the entire circuit is 100%. No hidden nasties anywhere else,waiting to go wrong further down the line,which will result in me having to go back.

 

[Toneyz]

Once I IR tested it,and it came back with a virtually zero reading,I didn’t split it and investigate any more. Again,looking at the state of the current install,to me it would be better to just put new in. The customer only wants 3 sockets. 2 of which I can drill straight through from the garage and the other straight through a void in the floor. Then when done,I can rest easy in the knowledge that the entire circuit is 100%. No hidden nasties anywhere else,waiting to go wrong further down the line,which will result in me having to go back.

Thanks for the reply, now you have explained it seems the easiest option and best action.

 

[TheCodboy]

Thanks for the reply, now you have explained it seems the easiest option and best action.

Once on site I’ll take some pictures of the job which will hopefully paint a clearer picture. I know sometimes it’s hard to visualise what someone is putting in words.

 

[loz2754]

Once I IR tested it,and it came back with a virtually zero reading,I didn’t split it and investigate any more. Again,looking at the state of the current install,to me it would be better to just put new in. The customer only wants 3 sockets. 2 of which I can drill straight through from the garage and the other straight through a void in the floor. Then when done,I can rest easy in the knowledge that the entire circuit is 100%. No hidden nasties anywhere else,waiting to go wrong further down the line,which will result in me having to go back.

The only possible problem I see with putting in a new circuit might be if the original circuit feeds other points somewhere else besides the kitchen. If that's the case, disconnecting the existing kitchen circuit would leave any such points dead.
My own professional curiosity (or maybe just my OCD!) would not let me give up before I'd found the reason for the fault.
But that's just me...

 

[TheCodboy]

The only possible problem I see with putting in a new circuit might be if the original circuit feeds other points somewhere else besides the kitchen. If that's the case, disconnecting the existing kitchen circuit would leave any such points dead.
My own professional curiosity (or maybe just my OCD!) would not let me give up before I'd found the reason for the fault.
But that's just me...

The customer hasn’t told me of anything else being off but I’ll certainly double check!