Fire alarm advice required

gmchris · May 22, 2011

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on this forum, from what i've seen its a good place for swapping help.

I have 26 yrs in the trade as electrician, project manager, testing supervisor, sole trader, director etc, but was made redundant this month so i'm going self employed again

.

Anyway, i've never done any fire alarms, except added the odd sounder. The very first job i'm asked to quote for is - you've guessed it - a fire alarm (in a school!)

Where can i find a beginners guide to fire alarms, what type i need, etc? I remember seeing a basic guide in the back of the Menvier Lighting catalogue years ago.

I'm competent enough to install anything given the kit, but i'm more concerned with what level of kit i need and any paperwork i need in place first. Its also gonna be monitored but i am doing that through an alarm company, but they usually do security alarms so cant help me with the install side.

Thanks

Gmchris

telectrix · May 22, 2011

as it's a school, perhaps the local council will specify the installation. this needs designing correctly from the start. your best man on here for advice is Bill ( accordfire ) if he's around.

gmchris · May 22, 2011

thanks, i'm going to have a look this week. The existing system is ADT but they are costing a fortune (in the headmasters wrods not mine) so they want a new system for cheaper servicing and monitoring reasons. We have already done some other work there so they are trusting us. I'll have a peek at the exisiting system and see what i can find out. maybe even just a new panel, but i'm thinking i'd like a complete new imstall if my reputaion's riding on it. I've found the Cooper Menvier guide on line which seems to have all the technical aspects covered. Do i need to speak to the local Fire officer first?

Dunc · May 22, 2011

Have a chat with you're local wholesaler. Often they will deal with a company that will design, sell and commission a fire alarm system for you leaving you to just carry out the install. That way you will not be responsible if the system is inadequate which'll shift the in indemnity issues away from yourself.

telectrix · May 22, 2011

having had dealings with ADT in the past, i can tell you that if they own the equipment, they will come and remove it by chopping cables. if you can remove the panel and detectors/sounders etc. cleanly. you will have all the existing wiring intact. if it's old , of course, you will want to replace it, but if a fairly recent install, could be to your advantage. i would definitely speak to the local fire officer.

accordfire · May 23, 2011

gmchris said:
Hello everyone,

This is my first post on this forum, from what i've seen its a good place for swapping help.

I have 26 yrs in the trade as electrician, project manager, testing supervisor, sole trader, director etc, but was made redundant this month so i'm going self employed again .

Anyway, i've never done any fire alarms, except added the odd sounder. The very first job i'm asked to quote for is - you've guessed it - a fire alarm (in a school!)

Where can i find a beginners guide to fire alarms, what type i need, etc? I remember seeing a basic guide in the back of the Menvier Lighting catalogue years ago.

I'm competent enough to install anything given the kit, but i'm more concerned with what level of kit i need and any paperwork i need in place first. Its also gonna be monitored but i am doing that through an alarm company, but they usually do security alarms so cant help me with the install side.

Thanks

Gmchris

Hi Gmchris - welcome, firstly.

Okay.....

I notice from another post that you're outing A*T potentially, and as others have said.....if it's a rental, they'll have the kit back. There is another issue with it being presently an A*T system - Minerva is closed protocol - so even if it isn't rented, you'll have issues finding kit for it, without going through A*T, then issues programming it - you'll end up bringing them in, and probably costing more than A*T themselves overall.

So realistically, you're looking at a rip out and re-install in any case for life time cost saving.

There's two things you can't do - the first is to rely on the existing A*T design as compliant, or adequate, and the second, is guess.

In this situation, without a doubt, if I was you - I would do the following:

Obtain a copy of the Fire Risk Assessment - this will (if done properly) reveal the expected requirement for the fire alarm. It is effectively the basis for design, and moving forward with the design in any respect.

As others have said - design is critical - it isn't simply a case of banging in a few smokes and a couple of sounders, and hoping it'll all be OK (you don't come across like the type to do so anyway). It needs to be properly designed, and certified compliant with the grade of system required - which for most schools can be anywhere between L3 and L or P1.

The council will not, in all honesty be much help - they have, in the main, outsourced all specialist work like this, as it is cheaper to do so than to retain a guy with knowledge.

If I were you, in this case, I'd probably look to find a way to outsource design and commissioning at the least, and possibly service too initially - leaving yourself installation, and call out response.

Key Tip #1 for schools - use RESETTABLE callpoints! Sometimes called frangible - but they essentially do not contain breakable glass, but a flexible plate which is simply reset with a key. Saves oodles on replacing glasses.

Schools can have particular requirements - but much depends on use and occupancy - ultimately what you do not want is to be the guy on the front of the local or national paper who burnt the local school down.....

Where abouts in the UK are you (or the proposed system)? Happy to help if we can -