Fire place down lighting

[Josh Franklin]

I’ve been asked to install downlights each side of a log burner on a new build but need advice as to how to go about this. This is the first time I’ve been asked to do this

The flu installed is insulated using some sort of white pellets, unsure of correct term.

Am I right in thinking I need to use FP cable and find suitable downlights that I can recess in the fire board?

Anyone done this before or have any better ideas of how to go about this?

Pictures attached show the chimney and upshot of the gap for the flu liner.

 

[Octopus]

You need to speak to the Hetas Engineer who is installing the woodburner ....

I don't think you can put lights in the board around the flue at all!

 

[Grant webber]

What a strange place to want downlights. The insulation around the flu will be vermiculite other then that cant help much

 

[PEG]

Hi,you may struggle to get specification,for placing fittings and such,in that area.
Pictures don't show a register plate,which would seal that space,and retain any insulation,possibly exfoliated vermiculite,or wrap.

Any Hetas installer SHOULD,be able to tell you,that area is not for fitting anything in,other than a sealable access hatch,to inspect chimney flue/liner.

If the register plate,sealed the lower part of the chimney,and there were areas to the side,not open to any other feathers,then subject to finding gear rated for the environment,it may be possible,but very impractical.

The area you describe,is open,to a greater or lesser degree,to the pot.
It is a cold bridge when not in use,and will reach high temperatures,in use.
That register plate,serves to protect the dwelling,during the occurrence of a chimney fire,where in bad cases,liners can burn through.

In such a scenario,the flames would vent via the easiest route....your lamp fittings.

It is the old Q - How fast do you want to go? Well,how much time and money do you have?

I don't doubt that if this property was Elton John's,some dude would be specifying explosion proof mining enclosures and luminaires,and getting suitable backing/indemnity.

Other specification exists,in relation to proximity of "building products" to flues and liners,this alone,may rule out the idea.

That is my technical input,such that it is...it only remains for me to say again,if putting lights above a stove,is the future - i'm having a disco glitter-ball,above my wheelie bins

 

[Andy78]

Was chatting to a Hetas registered stove installer yesterday that was saying all register plates should be of steel construction. Definitely check with the installer to see what is possible if anything. I doubt anything will be.

 

[Squid]

You need to perfect the "are you stupid look" when dealing with certain customers, they just want to show off their log burner tell them to buy a torch.

 

[Spud28]

Yep, fitted 2 down lights into a false ceiling above my wood burner, twin wall flue and what I perceived to be a safe distance from what was a very low heat source. It looked really nice and added a lot to the room. If it's what you want, get it!

 

[Octopus]

Yep, fitted 2 down lights into a false ceiling above my wood burner, twin wall flue and what I perceived to be a safe distance from what was a very low heat source. It looked really nice and added a lot to the room. If it's what you want, get it!

Until you have a fire and its traced back to your lights ..

What distance did you "perceive" as safe?

 

[Spud28]

So the twin wall flue ensures that the temp on the touchable surface is negligible, therefore I made a box with a nice piece of oak where it went into the ceiling and plasterboard underneath and clipped the cable I think it was around 8 inches from the flue. I must admit my set up wasn't as contained as the one in the post. Mine stood in free air. I hadn't seen the pics. My reasoning was that the cable should not get any hotter than that of say a spur in the airing cupboard for the immersion. All I'm saying is that there is usually a way to do things it just may not be that coat effective or practical.

 

[PEG]

So the twin wall flue ensures that the temp on the touchable surface is negligible, therefore I made a box with a nice piece of oak where it went into the ceiling and plasterboard underneath and clipped the cable I think it was around 8 inches from the flue. I must admit my set up wasn't as contained as the one in the post. Mine stood in free air. I hadn't seen the pics. My reasoning was that the cable should not get any hotter than that of say a spur in the airing cupboard for the immersion. All I'm saying is that there is usually a way to do things it just may not be that coat effective or practical.

Hi,this may,or may not be the case,but if you glance at the regulations,regarding twin wall,you will note there are minimum distances for varying materials/persons. These apply,whatever the actual temperature is,or is not.
It is for this reason,that you are therefore prevented from putting certain fittings in this area,and maintaining freedom from blame.

The issue with the OP's customers request,was one of warranty of one's work,not what we have got away with in our own residence,albeit with experience and thought

I would never in a million years,get all high-horse mounty,over these things,and have seen plenty of "installs",that would shame a copper's torch...for instance...i know of one country pilgrim,when faced with a failed chimney/feathers,who joined two cardboard tubes together,from the centre of a roll of carpet,dropped this down his chimney,and bucketed up 6 full mixes of concrete and vermiculite.

He then just jammed the stove pipe in,at the bottom,and let the stove gradually burn out the tube

Admittedly,he comes from a family who used to sweep the chimney by dropping a goose down it ...but none of these ideas would be transferred to a paying client!

 

[ruston]

Admittedly,he comes from a family who used to sweep the chimney by dropping a goose down it ...but none of these ideas would be transferred to a paying client!

My old Dad worked on a farm at 14 years old and lived in a bothy on the farm . The chimney was cleaned with a 12 bore.

 

[PEG]

My old Dad worked on a farm at 14 years old and lived in a bothy on the farm . The chimney was cleaned with a 12 bore.

Yeah,but which end got the salvo?

Any qualified heating technician,knows a Rayburn or Aga double,needs at least 50 grammes of BB's from an 8 bore goose gun,to pass the flue gas emissions test...

 

[ruston]

Lol this was a hill farm near Cardross on the west coast of Scotland.
There were four of them in the Bothy so I think all would benefit from the salvo.
It was an open hearth fire so you will know what state the chimney would be in and the type of load would be in the old scatter gun.

My Dad told me the story of the ploughman walking back with the horse. The ploughman was limping , the farmer ( old Rannie) asked what was wrong with his leg . The ploughman replied " Nothing , just a stone in my boot. Rannie replied "get your gear , you are finished".
When asked why Rannie replied " If you wont take a stone out of your own boot, you wont take one out of the horses hoof, now get your stuff together and go"
I never forgot that , a lesson there somewhere.

 

[Spud28]

Yes I think there was a inch or two inch gap required around where the flue enters through the fireproof board. A stainless plate is used to close the gap. I remember researching at the time and couldnt find much info. I inspected the fitting and cable that i was able to retrieve after a winter of use and it was fine. I'm pretty sure i used fp200 from the spur to the fittings but tbh it was a few years back when cfl downlights were first coming out. Heat dissipation was prob less of a requirement than led's which may cause issues.

 

[snowhead]

If it's your own house and an existing installation, you can do what you want whether it meets regs or not.

On a new build or new installation the Hetas guy has to self certify the flue for Building control, if he's OK with fitting downlights, which he won't be, then your OK to do it.