Fire Rated Clips In Trunking

[Nigel]

I see what you mean, but, coding relates to the ongoing safety of the electrical installation, and thus the danger it poses.
If the guidance published by the “industry” says C2, with reasons and explanation, you may have a difficult time justifying a lower code?
Especially when the requirements for this have been implied for many years before it became detailed in BS7671.

I agree that if the guidance states it clearly otherwise it would be difficult to go against that guidance.

 

[westward10]

What guidance.

 

[suffolkspark]

As an add on to this, what about installs that have been brought upto standard with the metal trunking clips... But utilising red wall plugs.... Or metal containment usin the same... Did we ever decide on that one?

 

[Wilko]

As an add on to this, what about installs that have been brought upto standard with the metal trunking clips... But utilising red wall plugs.... Or metal containment usin the same... Did we ever decide on that one?

It won't be obvious if there is a red plug under it or not, so you'd have to dismantle to find out. That'll be so much fun, not.

 

[Nigel]

As an add on to this, what about installs that have been brought upto standard with the metal trunking clips... But utilising red wall plugs.... Or metal containment usin the same... Did we ever decide on that one?

C3 for me if they are a part of the inspection.

 

[netblindpaul]

AFAIK the tests done by BRE found that plastic wall plugs were fine, the general thoughts are they will last the 30 minute survivability window that the wiring is required to stay in place for.

 

[Spoon]

AFAIK the tests done by BRE found that plastic wall plugs were fine, the general thoughts are they will last the 30 minute survivability window that the wiring is required to stay in place for.

Isn't there a thread on here were we discussed this. Someone did a test and they were found to be inadequate in a fire.

 

[netblindpaul]

Isn't there a thread on here were we discussed this. Someone did a test and they were found to be inadequate in a fire.

I seem to recall the opposite.
I will have to find the test results now!

 

[Spoon]

The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th.... - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/the-use-of-plastic-wall-plugs-for-the-18th.165928/

Here is the one I was talking about.

 

[Ian1981]

Well for me I code a high concentration of cables not supported against premature collapse in the event of a fire in escape routes a C2 , using a judgment call in the amount of cables that if collapsed, would cause a danger.
A single piece of cable in a piece of trunking then I would not give it the same code as the risk of danger in my view is diminished.
The term escape route is removed from bs 7671 2018 regarding applying this regulation but I will apply the same principle when coding to the new regulations and for cables to be supported throughout the installation and being sensible about it.

 

[Spoon]

Well for me I code a high concentration of cables not supported against premature collapse in the event of a fire in escape routes a C2 , using a judgment call in the amount of cables that if collapsed, would cause a danger.
A single piece of cable in a piece of trunking then I would not give it the same code as the risk of danger in my view is diminished.

If I was going to use your philosophy mate then I would code any cable in an escape route as C2.
You say "A single piece of cable in a piece of trunking then I would not give it the same code as the risk of danger in my view is diminished." Where do you draw the line? Is 1 cable of 2.5mm classed as 'risk of danger diminished'? If so then are 2 cables of 1mm also classed as 'risk of danger diminished'?

 

[suffolkspark]

Firefighters do have side cutters on there BA kit, so 1 cable is obviously better than 20, but i dont think that should effect our coding. If its there with no propper fire proof support then its a C2 from me, 1 cable or 100 cables.

 

[Ian1981]

If I was going to use your philosophy mate then I would code any cable in an escape route as C2.
You say "A single piece of cable in a piece of trunking then I would not give it the same code as the risk of danger in my view is diminished." Where do you draw the line? Is 1 cable of 2.5mm classed as 'risk of danger diminished'? If so then are 2 cables of 1mm also classed as 'risk of danger diminished'?

I use my judgment in that obviously say 30 cables above a suspended ceiling without the required support of fire retardant fixings is a much larger danger than a 1mm cable unsupported on a wall anywhere in the building.
I did say that the term escape route is removed and this regulation is now applicable to throughout the installation.
I can’t see the logic of a C2 to say a piece of trunking containing a 10mm cable in a cupboard going from the floor to the loft for a shower supply

 

[Wilko]

Is there any leeway during installation? A vertical run wouldn't seem to be a risk (?) nor a cable running horizontally behind kitchen cupboards for example. Or is it "just do it all" to ensure compliance?

 

[Spoon]

Is there any leeway during installation? A vertical run wouldn't seem to be a risk (?) nor a cable running horizontally behind kitchen cupboards for example. Or is it "just do it all" to ensure compliance?

I'm presuming it's to stop fire fighters getting entangled in cables...
I understand your thoughts on cables behind kitchen cabinets but not totally sure what the deal it. I suppose it's best to go "just do it all", then you are covered..