fire rated LED light covers

[Andy Mc123]

Am hoping you can help

Following an integral garage conversion, I am after a couple of fire hoods to cover some LED ceiling spotlights.
The lights are in a plaster boarded ceiling which has a garage roof void above (the room is part of an integral garage conversion).
Lights are around 150mm dia (110mm cut out) and about 40mm high plus a small driver.

Can you advise if you know a suitable product please ? There is plenty of access above the new ceiling.

For the proposed product, the building inspector is asking for a data sheet and a copy of the fire test certificate for this item, to confirm it is suitable to prevent fire spread from outside in the loft space above to inside the building, maintaining the integrity of fire-rated ceilings, rather than the normal way it’s used due to the roof void being part of a garage.

I have tried Tenmat, antifire, envirograf and all only have certs for fire going from room below to above, not the other way around.
Am hoping someone has found a solution for this,


Thanks in advance
Andy

 

[davesparks]

If the roof void is accessible then you could ask building control if you could box them in with plasterboard of the same spec as the ceiling.

 

[Andy Mc123]

If the roof void is accessible then you could ask building control if you could box them in with plasterboard of the same spec as the ceiling.

Thanks Dave, makes sense, do i need to allow for any ventilation for transformers in general, the light are LED and the transformer i would say gets slightly warm at most?

 

[DG599]

Do you mind sharing what the result with the building inspector was? I think he was asking for certifcates for a test that Doesn't exist. Did he ask for any british standard

 

[Andy Mc123]

Do you mind sharing what the result with the building inspector was? I think he was asking for certificates for a test that Doesn't exist. Did he ask for any British standard

Hi , you are correct there are appears to be no certified items out there to cover this issue.
even fire rated lights dont cover this issue.
he has given two options, one plasterboard the front elevation completely which i would then need to put a fire hatch into, for future access if the roof leaked or anything,
Or he has said if i make a wooden box from FR MDF, adding two layers of fire lined plaster boards all fixed with stainless steel screws, then sealed with a fire protection coating, then screwed and bonded down to the ceiling with fire safe silicon he would pass this, he couldn't guarantee it being fully fire safe due to no certs but would be acceptable, as i would have made reasonable provisions to protect the room. he would then provide the cert which i think is fair enough.
A lot of work for 2 spot lights, i would suggest standard fixed lights next time!!


in c

 

[Midwest]

May I ask you provide a link to the manufactures of these luminaires, or some pictures? Have you installed them yet? They are probably some better products you can use, we can provide some alternatives, that will be fire rated.

 

[DG599]

Hi , you are correct there are appears to be no certified items out there to cover this issue.
even fire rated lights dont cover this issue.
he has given two options, one plasterboard the front elevation completely which i would then need to put a fire hatch into, for future access if the roof leaked or anything,
Or he has said if i make a wooden box from FR MDF, adding two layers of fire lined plaster boards all fixed with stainless steel screws, then sealed with a fire protection coating, then screwed and bonded down to the ceiling with fire safe silicon he would pass this, he couldn't guarantee it being fully fire safe due to no certs but would be acceptable, as i would have made reasonable provisions to protect the room. he would then provide the cert which i think is fair enough.
A lot of work for 2 spot lights, i would suggest standard fixed lights next time!!

in c

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply. It still feels odd he can compell you to do extra work without the test standard to refer to. - Just making it up. I've been doing a lot of research on fire ratings, and I dont think it's well known how to interpret them. There is no fire test for lights! - Only fire tests for specific floors with the lights fitted. Were you tempted to fit surface mounted lights, which attract no fire testing criteria?

 

[Midwest]

Wow, thanks for the detailed reply. It still feels odd he can compell you to do extra work without the test standard to refer to. - Just making it up. I've been doing a lot of research on fire ratings, and I dont think it's well known how to interpret them. There is no fire test for lights! - Only fire tests for specific floors with the lights fitted. Were you tempted to fit surface mounted lights, which attract no fire testing criteria?

Luminaires that have a fire rating, i.e. a down light, will have a fire rating to maintain the fire rating of the ceiling, which is typically made from plasterboard. So a 12.5mm plasterboard affords a 30min rating, typically most fire rated downlights have a 90min rating. The manufacturer provides that rating.

 

[DG599]

This is where the miss-understanding comes from as the tests are very specific. There are many ceiling types, but the main ones tested are 30minute (1 FR plasterboard layer),
60minute (2 FR plasterboard layers), 90minute (3 FR plasterboard layers).

If a 90 minute rated luminaire is fitted to a single skin (30mm) plasterboard ceiling the rating may not be valid. It does not mean the luminaire is suitable and/or tested with a 30minute ceiling. The fire test is only relevant to the specific type of ceiling it is tested on and cannot be transferred to other ceiling specifications.

 

[Midwest]

This is where the miss-understanding comes from as the tests are very specific. There are many ceiling types, but the main ones tested are 30minute (1 FR plasterboard layer),
60minute (2 FR plasterboard layers), 90minute (3 FR plasterboard layers).

If a 90 minute rated luminaire is fitted to a single skin (30mm) plasterboard ceiling the rating may not be valid. It does not mean the luminaire is suitable and/or tested with a 30minute ceiling. The fire test is only relevant to the specific type of ceiling it is tested on and cannot be transferred to other ceiling specifications.

Can’t comment on that statement.

What I do know, is building regs are specific; if a fire rated ceiling is compromised, i.e. a hole is cut in it, then it must be returned to its original state.

So if I cut a hole in it to install a down light, the down light should have a suitable fire rating. So a 30min ceiling, have a 90min down light installed in it, will comply.

 

[DG599]

So if I cut a hole in it to install a down light, the down light should have a suitable fire rating. So a 30min ceiling, have a 90min down light installed in it, will comply.

I haven't found a test house that would agree with this. Sorry. They would only sign a document to say a 90minute product is suitable for a 90min ceiling. not a 90min product to a 30min ceiling. -If it hasnt been tested in that scenario.

 

[Midwest]

I haven't found a test house that would agree with this. Sorry. They would only sign a document to say a 90minute product is suitable for a 90min ceiling. not a 90min product to a 30min ceiling. -If it hasnt been tested in that scenario.

Well that’s most the houses I’ve installed down lights in stuffed.

Where are you getting all this guidance from?

 

[DG599]

Sorry, that's from my research. We are about to invest in fire testing some products. Investing in a 30minute ceiling test probably covers more installation types, but everyone thinks 90 minutes is better, but 3 layer ceilings are less common. Exova is one of the main UK test bodies.

 

[Midwest]

Your profile is locked, so no idea of your experience.

I’m not an expert in fire protection. If I’m correct, you’re saying, if you install a 30min fire door in a 90min fire wall, it will not give you ANY fire protection?

 

[DG599]

Your profile is locked, so no idea of your experience.

I’m not an expert in fire protection. If I’m correct, you’re saying, if you install a 30min fire door in a 90min fire wall, it will not give you ANY fire protection?

Not sure how I unlock my profile. Paying around £10K per ceiling type test and you get a test certificate for that type. So test the 30min ceiling and you get lights rated for 30mins. You need to test, 30, 60, and 90 to pass on the certification. I don't know who is liable if a 90minute light is fitted to a 30 minute ceiling or a 30minute light to a 90min ceiling. The test houses will just refer to the combination they tested.