UK Fire rated light fittings??

[leebut]

Hi Chaps

I’m sure this has been asked a thousand times but I can’t find the answer.

in a block of flats that is say 10 to 15 years old that was build using steel girders with concrete slab floors between each floor, If each of the flats was originally build with down lighters in (halogen lamps) do these fitting have to be fire rated fittings.

in my view they don’t as the building was designed and constructed with concrete fire barriers between floors, then suspended ceilings below the concrete slabs with down lighters fitted into the plasterboard this will have been installed to the existing wiring and building regulation.

is this right?

Regards

Lee

 

[westward10]

Why do you ask.

 

[brianmoooore]

Does anyone fit non fire rated down lighters these days? Haven't fitted a non fire rated one for many years.

 

[leebut]

I’ve had a customer ring me today who’s had an EICR carried out on a 10 year old apartment she owns to be told that all the 14 down lights in the apartment need changing to fire rated fitting because they don’t meet the wiring regs for the spread of fire.

the apartments are over ten year old designed and build as a complex not refurbs from an existing building, so all the floors are concrete with fire escapes etc, the ceilings in the apartments are plasterboard suspended for decoration and probably for acoustic dampening.

the down lights in the property are the original lights so in my eyes the concrete structure is the fire barrier and any service ducts will have been designed to stop the spread of fire.

so non fire rated lights are acceptable in this property or am I wrong?

 

[leebut]

Why do you ask.

Please See my reply further down

 

[westward10]

You are correct.

 

[leebut]

Does anyone fit non fire rated down lighters these days? Haven't fitted a non fire rated one for many years.

I always install fire rated lights in all properties I install in, this is an existing ten year old property

 

[cliffed]

To be fair I usually look @ the cabling,joint boxes,then decide with the client...the recess lights are far superior these days than those 12v halogen fire waiting to happen lamps.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You can't get a much better fire barrier than a concrete floor, however if there is a need for control of fire spread between the concrete floor and the false ceiling i.e. non continuous walls through the false ceiling up too the concrete structure, between the flat and a public corridor or another flat then fire rated lamps would be needed, although that scenario is against building regulations it does happen.

 

[leebut]

You can't get a much better fire barrier than a concrete floor, however if there is a need for control of fire spread between the concrete floor and the false ceiling i.e. non continuous walls through the false ceiling up too the concrete structure, between the flat and a public corridor or another flat then fire rated lamps would be needed, although that scenario is against building regulations it does happen.

This is an existing property which hasn’t been altered from the original design and construction, so the builders have hopefully constructed the property with fire integrity already, my question is why would an electrical contractor tell a client they need to change their light fittings to fire rated when the construction of the building doesn’t need them?

 

[Mike Johnson]

It may have been advice given to replace Halogen lamps for LED's to provide savings, or the electrician could just be looking for work.

 

[snowhead]

This is an existing property which hasn’t been altered from the original design and construction, so the builders have hopefully constructed the property with fire integrity already, my question is why would an electrical contractor tell a client they need to change their light fittings to fire rated when the construction of the building doesn’t need them?

You've answered the question.

The Electrical contractor, or anyone else, doesn't know for certain that the building has been designed with the concrete floor as a fire barrier and constructed with all holes through the concrete floor correctly sealed and any services passing through it having the correct fire protection unless, there is a certificate or report available specific to that area issued by someone qualified to do so.

It can't be assumed to be a fire barrier just because it's concrete.

I've seen plenty of unsealed holes in concrete floors and smoke detectors in voids still with protective covers on after buildings have been in use for years.

 

[leebut]

It may have been advice given to replace Halogen lamps for LED's to provide savings, or the electrician could just be looking for work.

Think it’s probably the latter for extra work as no mention of changing to led also it’s a rental property so the savings on electricity wouldn’t be to the landlord ordering the EICR the savings would match the £678 to replace 14 down lights

You've answered the question.

The Electrical contractor, or anyone else, doesn't know for certain that the building has been designed with the concrete floor as a fire barrier and constructed with all holes through the concrete floor correctly sealed and any services passing through it having the correct fire protection unless, there is a certificate or report available specific to that area issued by someone qualified to do so.

It can't be assumed to be a fire barrier just because it's concrete.

I've seen plenty of unsealed holes in concrete floors and smoke detectors in voids still with protective covers on after buildings have been in use for years.

I’m sure it’s not the responsibility of the landlord of one property in a block of flats to ensure it’s fire integrity, more like an electrician after money for unnecessary work usual story with the recent changes to the rental sector.

these flats were only built ten years ago and if it had been specified to have fire rated lights back then for the fire integrity of the building they would be in now as these are the original lights fitted by the contractor at the time of construction

 

[Mike Johnson]

We have to assume that most buildings are constructed in accordance with the building regulations, as each electrician has to assume that the previous electrician has also installed in accordance with the electrical regulations, we can't second guess everything.

 

[snowhead]

these flats were only built ten years ago and if it had been specified to have fire rated lights back then for the fire integrity of the building they would be in now as these are the original lights fitted by the contractor at the time of construction

If that's the case then the solution is simple.
You attend to carry out remedial works, find that the EICR is incorrect in it's statement of new lights required, state in your opinion fire rated aren't required attach an update to the EICR, make a small charge to the Landlord and everyone is happy , apart from the guy who thought he'd get the job to replace all the lights.