Fire System Detectors

[SYKRAPS]

Good Afternoon to all,

I am installing a fire system within a small office with which I have no issues.

This install is for a very fussy client who pays well so all good there, but he has a request that I have not come across before.

My question is does anyone know of or has used a flush fitting smoke/heat detector? The guy likes his clean lines and wants detection and sounders that are flush with the ceilings. The office has suspended ceilings so space is not a concern.

If anyone knows of a product and has fitted them in the past I would muchly appreciate any opinion and a link if possible.

Thanks All................

 

[grantr37]

Vedsa Laserfocus single room unit with concealed detector heads, it's a small plastic pipe with a bit about the size of an earplug that sticks out through the ceiling tile.....they are sold in Red or white... As for sounders, there are stylish ones (very expensive about £120 each) that are available for wall mounting in White, Black, Red or fake wood as well as brushed steel and chrome...

 

[firespark]

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a flush smoke detector. and standard smoke and heat detectors can not be recessed as the sensing element needs to be between 25-600mm from the ceiling for smokes and 25-150mm from the ceiling.

As grantr37 already said. The common solution for aesthetically pleasing smoke detection is to use an aspirating detector like VESDA. Due to the way an aspirating detector works (sucking air in through a pipe via fans and filters) the sampling points can be mounted flush to a ceiling using capillary pipes from the main pipework.

again like grantr37 said, you can get various styles and types of sounders with fancy finishes to blend in.
If the premises has a PA system or just speakers in the ceiling for music. Another option that would work is to use matching speaker grills fitted into the ceiling and install standard fire alarm sounders just behind the grills.
(obviously if you choose this option make sure you mark on the drawings where you installed them as they will be very well hidden for the next engineer to find...

 

[SYKRAPS]

Thank you for the responses guys.

I am guessing that the VESDA system links into a standard fire system setup.

Is the VESDA system a specialised fit or can it be fitted by a regular sparky such as myself and does it integrate with a standard analogue panel?

What would you expect to pay for the materials for say panel, 10 detectors and associated materials required?

How much additional labour time would you allow per detector?

AS you would assume I have to quote the system in the first instance.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[tazz]

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a flush smoke detector. and standard smoke and heat detectors can not be recessed as the sensing element needs to be between 25-600mm from the ceiling for smokes and 25-150mm from the ceiling

Apollo make a flush detector call the Plateau, which sit 2mm off ceiling level, and is a standard coventional type.
Unfortuantley last time we used cost well over £180 each in brushed steel so from a cost point i would go back down the route of vesda .

Apollo Plateau optical

 

[tazz]

Back to Grants and firesparks idea, of asperation, airsense/hochiki make a great little unit call the Micra, single port tube with a maxium length of 50m per tube, and will fit any alarm, with the ceiling be suspended, if over 800mm, you can cover this with the same sampling pipe. Micra around £150.

 

[accordfire]

Depending on the requirements for the system, you may be able to get away with any of the above.... or with linear heat detection. Much depends on the category of the system.

The real issue is one of design.

By the nature of the way a smoke detector works, a flush design would be impossible to achieve - mainly because it samples circulating air - the Plateau detector Tazz mentions is really more of a mini-beam than a "smoke" detector as such (though can be classed as smoke detection).

For cost effectiveness, I would tend to look at beams as an option here, or something like an air sampling detector (Vesda being a prime example).

If you're going to go the Vesda route, best to get someone who knows it exceptionally well to design the pipe flow and air holes required. They do software which will work it out, but get the design checked - ISTR Xtralis did offer a design service at one time. Once installed, maintenance is fairly simple - but they d like filter changes fairly frequently in "general" environments - as they were really meant, and optimised for clean room environments such as IT server rooms.

 

[firespark]

16913[/ATTACH]
Apollo Plateau optical

I forgot all about that thing. I thought they had been discontinued?
Either way, I do remember that said device also requires a 24v input on top of the zonal wiring as its non-addressable. (so a monitored power supply would be required, and depending on the room size to be protected I can see a few of these far outweighing the cost of VESDA or equivalent.

 

[tazz]

Totally outweigh the cost, hence my advice to go with your recomendation on asperation and advised a Micra to keep cost down. Last time I fitted Plateaus, the client insisted on them being custom made to his spec....money no object. All down to the customer in the end.