D
Darkwood
Getting red hot now!!! (big clue there 
)
Yes was a converted town hall and was used for people with learning and physical disabilities, it was over 3 floors and the lift gave access to floor 2 and 3 for those who were not able to use the stairwell.
)Yes was a converted town hall and was used for people with learning and physical disabilities, it was over 3 floors and the lift gave access to floor 2 and 3 for those who were not able to use the stairwell.
T
tazz
Could this lift be used as a firemans control lift and micc cabled being class as enhanced cabled, allows it to be controlled as such.......just a stab in the dark.???
D
Darkwood
Getting red hot was my biggest clue....
You all hovered around it in your own posts but il let you in on it.
The building had the lift built into an extension as which also included fully built in fire stairwell, the extension was totally independant although attached to the building and the only links were fire doors on each level, the lift was in normal use throughout the day but didnt give direct access to the building only to each floor of the extension. This allowed it to be classed as a isolated lift and could be used in the event of a fire to get the disabled off the floors direct to street level, the supplies were run on two seperate routes and combined in the lift shaft up to the changover lift controls.
In the event of a fire taking out one Micc supply the changeover unit will swap to alternative supply, the fact the lift was so designed in an isolated extension means the supplies were safer and less chance of fire damage in the lift shaft so 17th could be ignored.
At time of commision only one supply entered the building but future plans on a dedicated back up genny or independant sub'd incomming supply was on the cards.
This when set up would give the lowest chance the lift would lose both supplies and time to evacuate those who couldn't get out by the stairwells.
thought id throw this in cos i was getting bored of the debates out there a lately ... cheers for the responses.
You all hovered around it in your own posts but il let you in on it.
The building had the lift built into an extension as which also included fully built in fire stairwell, the extension was totally independant although attached to the building and the only links were fire doors on each level, the lift was in normal use throughout the day but didnt give direct access to the building only to each floor of the extension. This allowed it to be classed as a isolated lift and could be used in the event of a fire to get the disabled off the floors direct to street level, the supplies were run on two seperate routes and combined in the lift shaft up to the changover lift controls.
In the event of a fire taking out one Micc supply the changeover unit will swap to alternative supply, the fact the lift was so designed in an isolated extension means the supplies were safer and less chance of fire damage in the lift shaft so 17th could be ignored.
At time of commision only one supply entered the building but future plans on a dedicated back up genny or independant sub'd incomming supply was on the cards.
This when set up would give the lowest chance the lift would lose both supplies and time to evacuate those who couldn't get out by the stairwells.
thought id throw this in cos i was getting bored of the debates out there a lately ... cheers for the responses.
T
tazz
Was an interesting post....really stretch the brain...good one Darkwood
E
Engineer54
What is the big no-no about runing the lift supply cable(s) in the lift shaft then?? Can't be anything to do with fire regulations...
M
MarkieSparkie
Lift shafts are generally classified as CB2 fire propagating structures due to the chimney effect and therefore any cabling requires special protective measures eg. MICC to BS EN 60702 and/or fireproof shutters, ducts, troughs, trunking, barriers, fire detectors, etc. BS 7671:2008+A1:2011 422.5, 528.3.5 and Appendix 5C; BS 5655 and BS EN 81-1 apply.
E
Engineer54
I'm playing the Devils advocate here!! lol!
So why if darkwood is using MICC in the lift shaft, for the supply cable to the lift installation is that a no-no??
D
Darkwood
To be honest id on this occasion didn't go too deep as this job was designed by others but Clark of Electrical works expressed that only cables relating to the control side are allowed in the lift which generally is lift lighting and possible power points for maintenance as well as control loom to cab, i was informed supplies to lifts are not permitted to be run through the shaft in normal circumstances but due to the build and design of the segregated lift shaft and stairwell it is permitted.
I can only assume in normal circumstances the supply cables could become a fire hazard in themselves that in a shaft linking every floor is a safety concern or the very fact that the supply cables may generally require inspection and been part of the 17th would require a Electrician to gain access to the shaft which of course he is not permitted to do under any circustance without a trained qualified lift engineer.
Its not often im left to speculation but its not an area im often working in and thus means im not going to shell out the large amount of pennies needed to purchase BS EN 81-1 to give definitive answers so would gladly stand corrected if ive misquoted a requirement.
To note the whole extension was built to high fire safety standards even if the whole building attached went up in flames the contruction of the fire escape stairwell and lift shaft should see no propergation of the fire as its all concrete stairs and steel rail structure in a stone self supporting segregated build, only deliberate arson with a dumped fuel source could render the escape void.
I can only assume in normal circumstances the supply cables could become a fire hazard in themselves that in a shaft linking every floor is a safety concern or the very fact that the supply cables may generally require inspection and been part of the 17th would require a Electrician to gain access to the shaft which of course he is not permitted to do under any circustance without a trained qualified lift engineer.
Its not often im left to speculation but its not an area im often working in and thus means im not going to shell out the large amount of pennies needed to purchase BS EN 81-1 to give definitive answers so would gladly stand corrected if ive misquoted a requirement.
To note the whole extension was built to high fire safety standards even if the whole building attached went up in flames the contruction of the fire escape stairwell and lift shaft should see no propergation of the fire as its all concrete stairs and steel rail structure in a stone self supporting segregated build, only deliberate arson with a dumped fuel source could render the escape void.
R
Robert Turnbull
Just hope the fire doesn't start in the mains room, or people could get stuck in the lift
(Assuming both supplies originate here and and back supply would be switched from here)
(Assuming both supplies originate here and and back supply would be switched from here)
D
Darkwood
An automatic fire extinguish system (inert gas)is fitted in the mains room and the isolators are at opposite ends so any fire when its all up and running of independant supplies shouldn't take out both supplies also its under caretaker control and no storage or anything flamable is allowed in the room and its a concrete ceiling so all been considered ...even in the worse case their should be ample time to evac' the building even with slower timing thats expected when mental health patients and disabled are present, none of this existed prior to the new build fire escape so anything is an improvement.
R
Robert Turnbull
Sounds like they have it covered then lol
T
tazz
Using micc cable has classed the supply and control as enhanced fire proof cable...imo this micc would outlast any pf enhanced cable on the market by hours...old methods still holding strong
B
Big n Daft
Best cable ever produced is Micc.
An MI install is the measure of a proper installation sparks:wink5:
An MI install is the measure of a proper installation sparks:wink5:
News and Offers from Sponsors
- Article
OFFICIAL SPONSORS
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
