Frost protection in attic/loft

[lecky_bob]

Hi,
Last year we had a burst pipe in the loft - made a heck of a mess!
I would like to try and get some frost protection up in the loft.
Originally I was thinking of some trace heating cables but having been up there I can see there are a lot of pipes! They are all insulated with 20-30mm foam.
Rather than trace heating cables (which would be a huge job) I was thinking of a space heating approach. Putting in a thermostat and a fan heater of some sort - just to heat the space when the temperature gets low.
Thoughts on this approach? Recommended products?
Most products seem to talk about 5decC for cut in but that is a bit high I think, it could get colder before the insulated pipes have an issue?
Thanks

 

[Octopus]

I’m amazed that insulated pipes froze .....

Was the property empty and heating off at the time ....

 

[snowhead]

Properly lagged pipes shouldn't freeze.
Trying to heat the roof space is a waste of time and money.

Spend the money you would spend installing heating on relagging the pipes fully with quality insulation.

Post a picture of the loft and pipes

 

[lecky_bob]

Interesting comments guys - and just stopped me buying a space heater!!
The insulation is a mix of foam (20mm) and old fashioned wrap cloth type. By the sounds of it, redoing it all with quality 30mm would be a better course of action?
Recommendations for best quality insulation? I will get out and buy some

 

[hasel5]

You might as well burn £50 notes to keep the loft warm mate than try fan heater as a said relax the pipes

 

[telectrix]

this will do in most cases. we had -15 deg. winter of 2011/2012. nothing froze. cheap and easy fit, as the stuff is slit, just cut and slip over pipes. comes in various diameters.

another way would be to do proper insulation of the attic. bin all the itchy-poo on the attic floor and fit 3" kingspan between the roof rafters, leaving 1" space between kingspan and roofing felt. bloody expensive though.

 

[Strima]

As usual Telectrix, the forum sage, has spoken wise words.

If the pipes are close to the floor level then 300mm of insulation will also help.

 

[telectrix]

As usual Telectrix, the forum sage, has spoken wise words.

If the pipes are close to the floor level then 300mm of insulation will also help.

a whole foot of itchy-poo scratchy covering where you can tread and cooking cables.... philistine. .

 

[snowhead]

Cut the lagging tight.
Tape the joints and a couple of wraps of tape down the split length to hold it together.
Spend time fitting it neatly.
Lag any tanks as well

 

[Timbo]

Climaflex Pipe Insulation 2m Lengths (same as Tubolit) pipe diameter x insulation wall thickness x length - https://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/insulation-c555/climaflex-polyethylene-pipe-insulation-c556/climaflex-pipe-insulation-2m-lengths-same-as-tubolit-pipe-diameter-x-insulation-wall-thickness-x-length-p5251

Other sizes/thicknesses available.

Byelaws govern minimum wall thickness of pipe lagging.

 

[telectrix]

soon be a thing of the past if we are to believe the tree hugging climate warming doom mongers. we still have the gulf stream as the EU has not been able to work out how to divert it to the Baltic. (if they could have made a directive, they'd have done it by now). so stoke up the coal fires, warm the planet. no more frozen pipes. ssssssimplesss.

 

[Harry_P]

Hi,
Last year we had a burst pipe in the loft - made a heck of a mess!
I would like to try and get some frost protection up in the loft.
Originally I was thinking of some trace heating cables but having been up there I can see there are a lot of pipes! They are all insulated with 20-30mm foam.
Rather than trace heating cables (which would be a huge job) I was thinking of a space heating approach. Putting in a thermostat and a fan heater of some sort - just to heat the space when the temperature gets low.
Thoughts on this approach? Recommended products?
Most products seem to talk about 5decC for cut in but that is a bit high I think, it could get colder before the insulated pipes have an issue?
Thanks

Can't you get a frost /pipe stat installed on your boiler?

 

[Octopus]

Can't you get a frost /pipe stat installed on your boiler?

I can't see that really helping - whereas decent insulation on the pipes in the loft would be a far better investment.

 

[Harry_P]

I can't see that really helping - whereas decent insulation on the pipes in the loft would be a far better investment.

I can definitely see it helping,aren't they designed for use in situations that the op described?

 

[Octopus]

I can definitely see it helping,aren't they designed for use in situations that the op described?

Not convinced - especially as his pipe lagging sounds out of date.

Our heating has a frost stat on it - set to 9 degrees ........... but its an internet based system to the lowest setting is 15 degrees ........so the house never gets too cold - and we don't have any pipe work / water in the loft either ........

 

[Harry_P]

Not convinced - especially as his pipe lagging sounds out of date.

Our heating has a frost stat on it - set to 9 degrees ........... but its an internet based system to the lowest setting is 15 degrees ........so the house never gets too cold - and we don't have any pipe work / water in the loft either ........

But the op does have pipes in his loft and he may decide to install a frost and pipe stat that is suitable to his particular requirements. Im genuinely interested in why you think a frost and pipe stat won't help avoid frozen pipes?

 

[telectrix]

just fit a blanket on top of the roof. it works on my neighbour's car windscreen. never gets froze. .

 

[Octopus]

But the op does have pipes in his loft and he may decide to install a frost and pipe stat that is suitable to his particular requirements. Im genuinely interested in why you think a frost and pipe stat won't help avoid frozen pipes?

It might help .......... but the OP's admission that his pipe lagging is poor - so that's where to start and its relatively cheap, and is definitely DIY ...

 

[Harry_P]

Not convinced - especially as his pipe lagging sounds out of date.

Our heating has a frost stat on it - set to 9 degrees ........... but its an internet based system to the lowest setting is 15 degrees ........so the house never gets too cold - and we don't have any pipe work / water in the loft either ........

But the op does have pipes in his loft and he may decide to install a frost and pipe stat that is suitable to his particular requirements. Im genuinely interested in why you think a frost and pipe stat won't help avoid frozen pipes?

It might help .......... but the OP's admission that his pipe lagging is poor - so that's where to start and its relatively cheap, and is definitely DIY ...

When I read the original post and he said he already had insulation, personally I would then have thought a frost/pipe stat
would be a good idea but I take your point that the insulation that is already there might be virtually useless. I was just confused why you originally said you couldn't see a frost/pipe stat helping but you have subsequently said it might help,which I do agree with

 

[davesparks]

Can't you get a frost /pipe stat installed on your boiler?

That would only keep the heating pipes warm, which will probably already be warm as the heating is likely to be on in freezing temperatures.
It won't help the cold water mains or any other pipes in the loft which are more likely to freeze.

 

[solarsavings]

How will a frost stat protect cold water pipes in a loft space if that space has no heating? Pipes should be well lagged in any cold space.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Do a loft conversion, you get more rooms and no frozen pipes!

 

[johnduffell]

Frost stat is just a switch that turns on when it's cold, it matters more what's connected ie heaters and where they are located, hence the discussion about heating the loft.
trying to warm a space outside the insulated envelope is wasteful so the op should either extend the insulated envelope around the pipe work or make it's own individual heated envelope.

 

[lecky_bob]

Thanks for this continued discussion and ideas.
It's interesting to talk about the boiler frost stat etc, but I leave the heating on already when it gets cold, but there are not any heating pipes in the roof/attic anyway?
Ideally I like the idea of insulating the roof/rafters properly and then removing the ceiling insulation - but that is a bigger project!

I will redo the insulation - that is easy and makes sense anyway.

Can anyone recommend a good thermostat to put on the pipes so that I can monitor the temperature via the internet??
I could then get an alert if the pipe temperature gets down to dangerous temps?

 

[JD6400]

But the op does have pipes in his loft and he may decide to install a frost and pipe stat that is suitable to his particular requirements. Im genuinely interested in why you think a frost and pipe stat won't help avoid frozen pipes?

Hi Bob, you say that there is just to much pipe work to trace heat but personally I would only do the hot and cold water and leave the heating pipes to fend for their selfs (with insulation ofcourse) .
If it is that cold the heating is going to be cycling anyway.
Would this make the amount of pipe work more manageable?
It would be a lot cheaper to heat the pipe rather than the loft space and safer than leaving a heater unaccompanied .

 

[davesparks]

Ideally I like the idea of insulating the roof/rafters properly and then removing the ceiling insulation - but that is a bigger project!

I. Would insulate between/below the rafters and leave the ceiling insulation where it is.

Or add another layer of ceiling insulation which goes over the pipes if the are close to ceiling level