G831-1 Notification

[Markc]

This isn't intended to see who's right or who's wrong just to ask what are we putting on the forms for the questions we scratch our heads on? For a time now I sit and wonder if what I am notifying is correct and so thought I'd ask the censes of opinion. So.............

Three from UK Power Networks asks for in part:

1, SSEG rating (Amps, Volts and power factor or kW under normal running conditions) and noted For PV and wind this is the rating of the solar panels or wind turbine less an allowance for the less than 100% efficiency of the inverter.

2, Maximum peak short circuit current (amps @ 230V AC).

3, Computer printout (where possible) or other schedule of protection settings.


4, Electricity meter(s) make and model ( Existing electric meter or new generation meter?)


So your opinions are………………………..?

 

[BruceB]

I do not claim an inside track on it, but having done a couple now from first principles without asking advice on a Central Networks form which is almost identical:

1. Inverter amps at max power at nominal voltage, ie power/230
Volts - nominal voltage 230
PF - 1 - inverter spec
kW - the maximum inverter output NOT the panels, because the inverters (SMA) were power limited and the panels were larger than the inverter. I would only put the panel size less x% where panel size was less than max inverter output

2. I put the maximum output current of the inverter,(which occurs when the mains voltage goes very low. This box is not really relevant to PV because they are current limited. And if you do short circuit them they should cut out within 0.5s if I remember correctly.

3. I printed out to a pdf all the grid protection settings of the inverter. It was easy because the SMA inverters had Bluetooth built in and I could talk to them with a laptop.

4. Existing meter - so they know whether to change it because it will go backwards

Regards
Bruce

 

[SibertSolar]

Can't help with #1 and #2 really but, for #3, I would imagine that they are looking for the details of the generation meter,

Andy

 

[Markc]

Can't help with #1 and #2 really but, for #3, I would imagine that they are looking for the details of the generation meter,

Andy

Thanks but the OP isn't looking for a answer. It's to open discussions on how WE as installers perceive what information the DNO is expecting to be there. I for one often have to sit and think what answer are the DNO expecting from a particular question.

 

[Markc]

For my self I have used all sorts of information but in the main:

1, Straight off the side of the inverter, A,V,Pf and Kw.

2, I have PSC'd the AC protection device or used information off the inverter or even off the panels.

3, I generally put the website address of the inverter manufacture. (let them go looking for it!)

4, I always put the generation meter.

I have searched for hours for some form of helpful information from any DNO to help in the notification procedure. All I seem to find is the general guidelines to G83 etc. Nothing like a fact sheet to aid form filling.

As I get Zero feedback from our DNO I am also past worrying about it.

I have contacted UKPN when it was EDF and was confronted with nothing but more questions. Seems they we're far from prepared for PV. Knowing a few people who work in different departments in UKPN I have also asked them when we have meet on different jobs and showed them the G83 form. No one has been able to satisfactorily answer my questions.

Is there a right or wrong? Do we need to worry about it?

 

[Markc]

1.
kW - the maximum inverter output NOT the panels, because the inverters (SMA) were power limited and the panels were larger than the inverter. I would only put the panel size less x% where panel size was less than max inverter output
Bruce

Thanks Bruce, Good reply and interesting comments regarding the kW. Our DNO G83 form has the following as a foot note to this perticuler point:

For PV and wind this is the rating of the solar panels or wind turbine less an allowance for the less than 100% efficiency of the inverter.

But why? I agree the output is going to be what the inverter is capable of generating when connected the a perticuler module. What allowance can we provide to de-rate the inverter off 100%?

 

[BruceB]

For PV and wind this is the rating of the solar panels or wind turbine less an allowance for the less than 100% efficiency of the inverter.

What allowance can we provide to de-rate the inverter off 100%?

Their comment reflects a general lack of understanding of the statutory definitions of tic and dnc.

In terms of the percentage, just take it from the inverter spec. It will claim between 93% and 97% efficiency I expect.

Regards
Bruce

 

[SibertSolar]

Thanks but the OP isn't looking for a answer. It's to open discussions on how WE as installers perceive what information the DNO is expecting to be there. I for one often have to sit and think what answer are the DNO expecting from a particular question.

Fair enough, understood. I can imagine it must be a minefield for you guys. Fair play, I'll keep my nose out,

Andy

 

[MorganPVI]

1. We allways put the smallest - either panels or inverter o/p (DNO (SSE) rules - unlike some "creative" figures other DNO ask for)
2. Not sure - awaiting guidance (nil return on form)
3. G83 Cert / manufactures test results
4. Generation serial (MPAN is already asked for)

Not sure how much attention the G83 forms get once they are recieved by our DNO.

 

[Markc]

@Morgan123......

It's the awaiting guidance comment that opened my thread here!

We get zero guidance form our DNO and when asking people who work for our DNO even they can't answer with certainty. Poor show really.

Interesting to see what others are putting and it's good to know we seem to be in the right ball park with each other yet no one is 100% certain. (I think thats a fair comment)

I would further agree with the "not sure how much attention the G83 form get" I think I might be sending them to some international email scam ring, you know the sort. I keep winning the Zimbabwe lottery for example!

 

[Worcester]

When we first got started, I called our DNO (it was central-networks back then), they put me through to theri engineer for the region (most here probably know him) and he very kindly took me step by step through and explained what should go in each box.

They were and are incredibly helpful and he was really tolerant (and still is!)

If you're with what was central networks, call their G83 number (NOT the G59/2 or Stage 2 number) and they will help you.

I've triggered a message on Easy-MCS's thread (sticky at the top) to see if they could provide some value to the forum by writing a definitive guide.

 

[Markc]

When we first got started, I called our DNO (it was central-networks back then), they put me through to theri engineer for the region (most here probably know him) and he very kindly took me step by step through and explained what should go in each box.

They were and are incredibly helpful and he was really tolerant (and still is!)

If you're with what was central networks, call their G83 number (NOT the G59/2 or Stage 2 number) and they will help you.

I've triggered a message on Easy-MCS's thread (sticky at the top) to see if they could provide some value to the forum by writing a definitive guide.

Think I need to move! Uk Power Networks are WORSE yes Worse than EDF in my opinion. Even finding the G83 form on their website takes an hour!

 

[BruceB]

All the Central Networks forms and contact details still seem to be the same and active on their website. I sent off another Stage 2 application to them yesterday. Let's hope they continue the good service and do not get the people and processes spoilt during the takeover/merger. WP appear a bit variable. Their Taunton office turned around a Stage 2 application in 5 days, but their Bristol office has taken a month so far, but at least is now on the case.
Regards
Bruce