GFI in boat dock not working

[tbergman74434]

Had an electrician install electrical in our boat dock, but none of the three square d gfi breakers are now working. I unplugged the overhead door motors. Still the breakers will not reset. Tested hot at all three breakers, and everything in the box looks clean and new, so I doubt lightning strike. Ideas? Could the incoming power line which is direct burial cable which comes in just above the water level, be the cause of tripping? On my way back from the lake, I realized that I had not reset the power. These breakers are post 2003 models, so do they have to be reset by turning off power to them?

I am just a diyer, so any suggesting will be appreciated. Called my electrician but he is, as usual, too swamped to respond...

 

[Megawatt]

From what I've seen on here, the US seem very lax on testing. I'm thinking earth loop testing and RCD testing particularly.

I’m not saying we don’t have a tester, what I’m saying is that I’m not aware of one

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I think the point here is that in the UK such testing is 100% routine, all electricians do it all the time, no-one thinks anything of testing an RCD, you just connect up the tester, press a few buttons, reset the RCD a few times and save or write down the results.

It is not unusual to find problems either with the RCD or more often with the related circuits, so the idea of not routinely testing seems to suggest those problems are not going to get discovered and corrected promptly.

 

[Megawatt]

I think the point here is that in the UK such testing is 100% routine, all electricians do it all the time, no-one thinks anything of testing an RCD, you just connect up the tester, press a few buttons, reset the RCD a few times and save or write down the results.

It is not unusual to find problems either with the RCD or more often with the related circuits, so the idea of not routinely testing seems to suggest those problems are not going to get discovered and corrected promptly.

Could you send a pitcher of the tester your referring to. Where I worked we had a division in our company that built panels. Done programming and they are the ones that had all the instruments to test various problems

 

[DPG]

Have a Google for RCD Tester or MFT. Typically made by Fluke, Megger, etc. The MFTs combine several testers in one convenient unit, eh. Earth loop tester, RCD tester, etc.

 

[tbergman74434]

I'm not quite clear on the sequence of events.

a) When was the installation done?
b) When did the breakers stop working?
C) Did all three stop working at the same time?
d) What does 'not working' mean anyway... the outlets & connected equipment are dead even when the breaker is reset, or the breakers won't reset, or they reset and immediately trip, or what? Do they all behave the same way?

Are there any circuits from that panel still working normally? Do they have GFCIs?

Install was around 8 years ago. The breakers failed sometime over the past year or two. All three have stopped working, but not at the same time. One stopped working soon after it was installed, most likely because that feeds the boat lift motor, and the wire runs beneath the decking where it can get wet. None of the three will reset, even momentarily. None of the lights or outlets work. All are on one or the other of the three protected circuits, fed by the gfi breakers. I have two thoughts about what might be happening: first, could the power main, which is wet, cause the issue with the downstream breakers? second, I disconnected the garage door lift motors, and everything else that was plugged in, but that did not fix it. Do modern gfi breakers which have no test button, have to be powered down to allow them to reset after having been tripped? (I thought of this on my way home from the lake...)

 

[Lucien Nunes]

could the power main, which is wet, cause the issue with the downstream breakers

Not normally. A GFCI is only 'aware' of leakage on the circuit it protects, not the source of power. Provided there is power at the panel, the GFCI should work.

Do modern gfi breakers which have no test button,

Hold it right there... Is there such a thing? If there's no test button, are you sure they are GFCI's? Can you post pics or model number?

To be honest, if on a GFCI you push the lever first to off, then to on, and it does not energise the circuit, even with everything unplugged that can be, pretty much your only option is to call an electrician. Testing the cause of that, or replacing the device if it turns out to be faulty, is beyond the scope of DIY.

 

[MJPD29]

Not that I’m aware of

How do you test that they are safe/fit for purpose/functioning properly when you install them?

 

[Megawatt]

How do you test that they are safe/fit for purpose/functioning properly when you install them?

How do you test that they are safe/fit for purpose/functioning properly when you install them?

How do you test that they are safe/fit for purpose/functioning properly when you install them?

Not normally. A GFCI is only 'aware' of leakage on the circuit it protects, not the source of power. Provided there is power at the panel, the GFCI should work.
CALL AN ELECTRICIAN Lucien please


Hold it right there... Is there such a thing? If there's no test button, are you sure they are GFCI's? Can you post pics or model number?

To be honest, if on a GFCI you push the lever first to off, then to on, and it does not energise the circuit, even with everything unplugged that can be, pretty much your only option is to call an electrician. Testing the cause of that, or replacing the device if it turns out to be faulty, is beyond the scope of DIY.

Not normally. A GFCI is only 'aware' of leakage on the circuit it protects, not the source of power. Provided there is power at the panel, the GFCI should work.



Hold it right there... Is there such a thing? If there's no test button, are you sure they are GFCI's? Can you post pics or model number?

To be honest, if on a GFCI you push the lever first to off, then to on, and it does not energise the circuit, even with everything unplugged that can be, pretty much your only option is to call an electrician. Testing the cause of that, or replacing the device if it turns out to be faulty, is beyond the scope of DIY.

Not normally. A GFCI is only 'aware' of leakage on the circuit it protects, not the source of power. Provided there is power at the panel, the GFCI should work.



Hold it right there... Is there such a thing? If there's no test button, are you sure they are GFCI's? Can you post pics or model number?

To be honest, if on a GFCI you push the lever first to off, then to on, and it does not energise the circuit, even with everything unplugged that can be, pretty much your only option is to call an electrician. Testing the cause of that, or replacing the device if it turns out to be faulty, is beyond the scope of DIY.

Could you send a pitcher of the tester your referring to. Where I worked we had a division in our company that built panels. Done programming and they are the ones that had all the instruments to test various problems

Matt the question is how would YOU test them if you installed them

How do you test that they are safe/fit for purpose/functioning properly when you install them?

Matt29 the big question is how would you test them?

 

[MJPD29]

Matt29 the big question is how would you test them?

I am only presuming that a gfci is an Rcd or similar, in which case id test it with my multifunction tester on 30ma/100ma or whatever it may be. Unless a gfci is something else?

 

[tbergman74434]

Here is a pic of the gfci breakers in my box.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Then I am not sure what you meant by GFCIs with no test button!

Still, I think you will need the circuits tested for low insulation resistance or other problems. If the panel is subject to condensation, the GFCIs may be faulty as well. There are too many variables to advise effectively from a distance.

 

[DPG]

Matt29 the big question is how would you test them?

As stated previously we have RCD testers which run through a series of tests at different currents. Google RCD testers and you will see.

 

[norcal]

GFCI's have a 6ma trip point.

 

[westward10]

Here is a pic of the gfci breakers in my box.

That is essentially a Square D QO rcd or gfci in the States. As in #28 they are designed to detect and trip if an earth fault is 6ma or above, a Type A fault from what I gather.

 

[tbergman74434]

Had an electrician install electrical in our boat dock, but none of the three square d gfi breakers are now working. I unplugged the overhead door motors. Still the breakers will not reset. Tested hot at all three breakers, and everything in the box looks clean and new, so I doubt lightning strike. Ideas? Could the incoming power line which is direct burial cable which comes in just above the water level, be the cause of tripping? On my way back from the lake, I realized that I had not reset the power. These breakers are post 2003 models, so do they have to be reset by turning off power to them?

I am just a diyer, so any suggesting will be appreciated. Called my electrician but he is, as usual, too swamped to respond...

UPDATE;
Thank you all for the helpful advice. I tried resetting all the way back at the meter, with no effect on resetting the GFCI breakers. Since I was now at the end of my knowledge, I hired an electrician. He checked it out and found that otters (or something) had chewed through the electrical cable feeding the dock, so we were getting no power to the dock. Repaired the broken cable, and all is well.